Hi guys,
I like to learn, so I hope I am not starting too many topics. I thought maybe it would be interesting to have some dialogue going on knives.
As a beginner to really cooking on a grill, I am interested to see what you guys would recommend as far as a good set of knives for me to consider (as in types of knives, and a good brand to check out). I know I don't need to buy the usual kind of sets that come with steak knives, so it's maybe more of a piece by piece, gradual purchase of a few good knives of different purposes.
I know I would like to have something to maybe trim briskets, spatchcock chickens (scissors sucked when I tried them), etc.
Thanks in advance, and hopefully this might be a useful topic to several of us on here.
What is your price range?
I LOVE spatchcocking my chickens with kitchen scissors. Seems like when I use a knife I always almost lose a finger.
Hmm, price range...depends on how I acquire them. If I can order a knife or two at a time, I can afford better stuff. One thing my wife warned me though is, if you don't or can't sharpen them, it really doesn't matter which knife or how much. So that's a whole other thread lol
Anyway, I guess if there were a hypothetical situation where I needed 5 different kinds of knives, I can see paying up to $20 each for them, and just buying them as I can.
I guess maybe my scissors aren't the best. It was very hard for me to cut along the backbone with my so called kitchen scissors!
Try Ontario scissors you won’t be disappointed. The knife discussion really opens things up. Personal preference use etc… I like Victorinox with plastic handles. They make a wide variety of styles and price range, handle different types and sizes and see what feels good. A good slicer, paring, boning and a couple of others should set you up. These should be in your price range, try a kitchen supply shop.
I bought some Henckels at Target a couple years . They work well for me.
[quote author=namtrag link=topic=13417.msg133731#msg133731 date=1413237671
I guess maybe my scissors aren't the best. It was very hard for me to cut along the backbone with my so called kitchen scissors!
[/quote]
That backbone can be tricky! Have to get tight along it....and then it just slides through.
I have a pair of Batil scissors and they do a number on chickens. Wicked! Knives, I have Victorianox, Zwilling-Henckel, Mundial. I have a Work Shop Ken Onion knife sharpener. Good stuff.
One of the first questions to answer is "european or asian" The bevels are different as well. The European blades are, in general, heavier. Some like the heft, others appreciate a lighter blade.
I started with a nice Wusthof set. Great knives - I still have the bread knife. After much tinkering and testing, I finally settled on MAC knives. They have a shallower bevel, are wickedly sharp, are slightly lighter than Wustof, and most importantly, fit my hand well. If you do a lot of cutting per session, fit and weight will make a difference.
You can buy most knives one at a time. I recommend (in order) 8 or 10 inch chef knife, paring knife, bread (serrated blade), and utility knife. After that, its all personal preference.
Winz
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/6t30b2suwx7lzqv/knives%201.jpg?dl=0)
Quote from: Cookingmama on October 13, 2014, 02:24:37 PM
[quote author=namtrag link=topic=13417.msg133731#msg133731 date=1413237671
I guess maybe my scissors aren't the best. It was very hard for me to cut along the backbone with my so called kitchen scissors!
That backbone can be tricky! Have to get tight along it....and then it just slides through.
[/quote]
Yeah, I was off track and ended up going even further off as I cut!
Quote from: masonred on October 13, 2014, 02:12:44 PM
Try Ontario scissors you won't be disappointed. The knife discussion really opens things up. Personal preference use etc... I like Victorinox with plastic handles. They make a wide variety of styles and price range, handle different types and sizes and see what feels good. A good slicer, paring, boning and a couple of others should set you up. These should be in your price range, try a kitchen supply shop.
Thanks, Red! I have a kitchen store in the shopping center where I work.
Quote from: wrehfield on October 13, 2014, 02:45:41 PM
I have a pair of Batil scissors and they do a number on chickens. Wicked! Knives, I have Victorianox, Zwilling-Henckel, Mundial. I have a Work Shop Ken Onion knife sharpener. Good stuff.
Will take a look at these as well, thanks.
I have Shun knives. Just get what you need...I'm most cases like Winz says, you only need a base set of 3-4 knives, then build on that. I love the added sharpness and lightness of the Japanese knives...I've had some German knives, hefty knives
Winz and Coldkettle, thanks for more info, now I have a great list of knives to look at. This is a great thread
If you don't have sharp knives currently, your will be impressed with new knives..(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/14/a2y2a2e5.jpg)
building upon what some have already posted, here is my input. I have many knives(most passed down to me), but (aside from steak/butter knives) only use a few regularly. one of my favorites is an old butcher knife(pretty much this w/a utilitarian handle and darkened blade(common for old quality knives)https://www.google.com/search?q=butcher+knife&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6og8VJHiH82wyASKm4CQDw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1474&bih=955#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=xEHwsiSDOo8r_M%253A%3Blt_vtJADwTQpXM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.knifecenter.com%252Fthumb%252F1500x1500%252Fknifecenter%252Fontario%252Fimages%252FOH77.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.knifecenter.com%252Fitem%252FOH77%252FOld-Hickory-Butcher-Knife-7-inch-Carbon-Steel-Blade%3B804%3B407 (https://www.google.com/search?q=butcher+knife&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6og8VJHiH82wyASKm4CQDw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1474&bih=955#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=xEHwsiSDOo8r_M%253A%3Blt_vtJADwTQpXM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.knifecenter.com%252Fthumb%252F1500x1500%252Fknifecenter%252Fontario%252Fimages%252FOH77.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.knifecenter.com%252Fitem%252FOH77%252FOld-Hickory-Butcher-Knife-7-inch-Carbon-Steel-Blade%3B804%3B407)) that was my grandfather's. it isn't fancy, but it holds an edge well and I've used it for a variety of tasks that range from slicing steaks off a roast to separating a roasted chicken. next is a "forever sharp" branded paring knife my mom gave me that I use for delicate/detail work. I also have an old filet knife(that was also my grandfather's) w/a blackened/darkened blade that I use for trimming fat off large cuts of meat or deboning the rear quarters of a deer. last on the list is an old forschner chef's knife(handed down from mom) that I use for cutting up large/bundles of vegetables.
all that in mind, imo-you don't need the whiz-bang super ultra knife designed for one purpose. find a few decent knives that will do what you need done and leave the knife sets for those that want a counter decoration.
I have a set of classic Wusthof knives. They are good enough for me. I sharpen them pretty often. Cut through everything I need them to. Kitchen scissors that came with the set cut right through the chicken.
Thanks, again for the input. I spent a little time browsing for knives, and didn't realize, you can google bbq knives and get some actual pre-done sets...expensive though (at least for me).
I never realized knives could cost $200 each until I started looking into it!
I stumbled across some really cheap knives that get decent reviews, called Kiwi knives, but how could you trust a knife that cost only $5?
Anyway, I am in no big hurry, so will continue to research all the different brands you guys suggested.
Since I really only needed a knife for my grilling I looked around and ended up buying a Havalon Baracuta. Went with this knife as when the blade gets dull I just take if off and replace with a new razor sharp blade. Blades are cheap and I been using the same blade for many months. I only cut meat so the blade really lasts. If you don't want the fillet type blade you can also go with the Baracuta Blaze with the larger wider blade. Both setups you can swap the blades between them.
http://www.havalon.com/fillet-knife-havalon-baracuta-z-xt-127z.html
http://www.havalon.com/skinning-knife-havalon-baracuta-blaze-xt-115blaze.html
Blades can be purchased separately
http://www.havalon.com/havalon-baracuta--quik-change--replacement-fillet-blades.html
My main knife in regards to BBQing is a Victorinox Fillet Knife that's 7 inches long. I use it for anything I'm prepping to go on the grill meat wise.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MF45X6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
My girlfriend has the Wurstof Santoku and Pairing knife combo that's basically an older version of this http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/wusthof-gourmet-2-piece-paring-santoku-knife-set/?pkey=cknives-wusthof&cm_src=knives-wusthof||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_--_- which we pretty much use for everything else.
Personally I'm not crazy about the Santoku for cutting up vegetables and things like that, I can't really get the rocking motion that I want to use like I can with a chef's knife so I'm thinking about buying my own chef's knife.
i got all caught up with Vintage stuff.
high carbon Sabatier from the early 1900's is my go-to knife. i also have some Gustav Emil Urn just a tad younger..more modern in heft and profile.
the french just made some beauties back then.
my modern Wustof Classic chef knife rarely gets used. i am trying to give it away to my brother. if i had to buy new..i would opt for a japanese Gyoto..i just love the profile.
if i had to pick just ONE..i would do a great chinese style cleaver.
Still using the Wüsthof Trident Grand Prix set given years ago.
Budget for a knife sharpener. A cheap Chef's Choice manual with 2 angles + hone will do the job and there are several electric models, and you can always go with sharpening stones.
All of that will get you truly sharp knives, for which there is no substitute.
Quote from: heart of coal on October 15, 2014, 11:50:59 AM
if i had to pick just ONE..i would do a great chinese style cleaver.
My mother in law has been seen using an old hatchet and machete. The former works well in the kitchen and the latter makes short work of whatever doesn't fit in the kitchen.
I have the same as addicted to smoke, although mine is not a set. I have a 6" & 8" chefs, a 10" slicer, a boning, and a paring knife in that line. I love the heft
Not a chef, just a guy who cooks stuff.....90% of everything gets cut with a fairly sharp Henckels bread knife....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/BBQ%20Apps%20-%20Peppers%20-%20Tenderloin%203-25-12/BBQApps-Peppers-Tenderloin3-25-12013.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/BBQ%20Apps%20-%20Peppers%20-%20Tenderloin%203-25-12/BBQApps-Peppers-Tenderloin3-25-12016.jpg)
I have a couple OK sharpies if needed......
Quote from: namtrag on October 14, 2014, 05:13:59 AM
I stumbled across some really cheap knives that get decent reviews, called Kiwi knives, but how could you trust a knife that cost only $5?
Ask a WKCer, that's how.
I have a couple stashes of Kiwi knives, one in the kitchen and one in my knife bag in the BBQ shed. No one is allowed to use them but me.
These are crazy sharp knives and hold an edge pretty well. I sharpen on a Furi Tech Edge Pro.
And hell, at $5.00 for a sharp knife, if I can't get it sharp again, I just buy some new ones!
Does anyone use or have used a Lansky knife sharpening kit on their kitchen knives? If so, how well does or did it work; and do you have any tips?
I have one. It works, but I don't have the patience. Even strokes and pressure required. I have a three step, easier to bring to a professional, IMO. Good knives will keep an edge a long time, if not abused.
Information overload!!! But all good information. I think I will go to the Asian market that is about 1/4 mile from home and see if they have some Kiwi knives. I am also going to go through our kitchen drawers and see what we have and try to put a set together and sharpen them. If I am not successful at that, I will put a few knives on my Christmas list! :)
Quote from: dengland on October 16, 2014, 10:32:10 AM
Does anyone use or have used a Lansky knife sharpening kit on their kitchen knives? If so, how well does or did it work; and do you have any tips?
I do. It seems to work fine on shorter knives IMO.
I have tried to sharpen the Henckels my wife has ruined and have given up. I guess I need to take them somewhere and have them reground.
Quote from: namtrag on October 16, 2014, 11:03:21 AM
Information overload!!! But all good information. I think I will go to the Asian market that is about 1/4 mile from home and see if they have some Kiwi knives.
I order from http://wokshop.stores.yahoo.net/ (http://wokshop.stores.yahoo.net/) only because there are few Asian markets in my neck of the woods.
Quote from: dengland on October 16, 2014, 10:32:10 AM
Does anyone use or have used a Lansky knife sharpening kit on their kitchen knives? If so, how well does or did it work; and do you have any tips?
I have a lansky. It works, but it's a lot of work. I'm too impatient. For pocket knives, it's great. For kitchen knives, it's too much work.
Quote from: Harbormaster on October 16, 2014, 10:00:48 AM
Quote from: namtrag on October 14, 2014, 05:13:59 AM
I stumbled across some really cheap knives that get decent reviews, called Kiwi knives, but how could you trust a knife that cost only $5?
Ask a WKCer, that's how.
I have a couple stashes of Kiwi knives, one in the kitchen and one in my knife bag in the BBQ shed. No one is allowed to use them but me.
These are crazy sharp knives and hold an edge pretty well. I sharpen on a Furi Tech Edge Pro.
And hell, at $5.00 for a sharp knife, if I can't get it sharp again, I just buy some new ones!
I have a few kiwis and love them. Very sharp and they hold the edge very well.
I beat the crap out of mine. Dishwasher will eventually make the handle fall apart. Replace them every two years.
I absolutely love the veg clever from kiwi.
I don't think quality is where you want to skimp on kitchen knives. Save up and invest in the best you can afford. I have -- and love -- Wusthof's 'Culinar' line. Expensive? Yes. Worth it. You bet. It fits my hand, keeps an edge, can be re-edged without too much trouble (that's a really important consideration by the way...) and I prefer the heft.
The knife I use the most? My 6.5" Santoku with a granton edge. http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-culinar-santoku-knife-6-5-with-granton-edge.htm
I also use the 8" Chef's knife and the 9" Carving knife. The unfortunate thing is that Wusthof has discontinued this line, so they are slowly disappearing from retailers.
Now that I've finally gotten serious about smoking, I will be picking up a commercial slicing knife for those larger cuts, especially brisket, probably at my local Smart & Final. They have a nice 12" granton edge slicing knife with a plastic handle for like $15.
J. A. Henckels, a little pricey but worth it!
Victorinox swiss army fibrox knives always win America's test Kitchen equipment reviews and I have to say for durability, balance and steel quality they're the best knife you can find and they're relatively cheap (8" chef's under $40). These are also the most common knives in professional kitchens.
I got my first one when I was in a culinary program in High school 12 years ago, soon after for Christmas my parents bought me a complete set of Wusthof, which are great but have not held up as well over the years through the thousands of trips through the dishwasher.
Things to look for in any knife are the type of metal. Stainless steel sounds good but it's extremely hard to sharpen once it loses its edge. High carbon steel is very easy to sharpen but rusts quickly. High Carbon stainless steel is what you have to look for.
Another great reliable, rugged brand would be dexter. That's another popular brand the pros use, but they're not as well balanced.
I'm coming in late to this conversation. It's surprising no one has mentioned Dexter Russell brand knives.
They are the white plastic handle ones you see in a lot of commercial kitchens. I have several and love then. They are inexpensive, indestructible and hold an edge well.
Quote from: bwb on October 26, 2014, 08:51:00 AM
I'm coming in late to this conversation. It's surprising no one has mentioned Dexter Russell brand knives.
They are the white plastic handle ones you see in a lot of commercial kitchens. I have several and love then. They are inexpensive, indestructible and hold an edge well.
Speaking of Dexter, I just made the connection between Dexter the knives and this dude:
(http://cdn.seriable.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/dexter-knife-600x345.jpg)
:o
This is obviously a huge question, and you've already gotten some excellent expert advice.
I agree that the Victorinox are excellent knives, and an amazing value. You really can't go wrong starting with them. If I were starting from scratch, I'd start with a few of their knives, but I'd invest in a quality Japanese water stone for sharpening-- a 1000/4000 stone should be perfect. You probably already have a 'steel' for aligning the blade periodically.
I am a *huge* fan of the Japanese-style knives, with a single bevel. They are light, thin, durable, and have amazing balance. Tricky to learn how to sharpen, but definitely doable.
No surprise to hear this from a WKCer, but it's really fun to find knives second-hand. I've never had any luck at thrift stores, but have found some amazing German knives at estate sales for like a buck apiece. Some of my favorite blades, because they came with a story and a history.
Bottom line: the single most important aspect of a knife is *sharpness*. With that in mind, I'd recommend you start with cheaper knives (like, say, the Victorinox) and spend a bit more on a quality water stone and practice your skills there. Then you'll have a better idea of the dream knives you'd like to have, and you'll know how to care for them when they come to you.
PS. You got off easy with Gummi. Last time I had a conversation about knives with him, I ended up buying a brand-new Shun honesuki. Not that I'm complaining. ;-)
Good ideas, Mike. I am thinking of putting a few knives on my Christmas list!
There is no easy answer for this question. Knives are a personal thing. You have to find which one feels right. I have used all different kinds of knives from every country imaginable and I know for me, I like japanese steel best.
I have a few globals that I use for everyday task but I like Sugimotos best.
They work for me but may not work for the next guy. I bought a white carbon steel single edge chef knife. It is extremely sharp. It dulls quick because how soft the steel is but gets sharpen than say a german knife. I also own damascus steel knives. These knives work great as well but you pay for them because of the amount of layers that are hammered to create the knife itself.
I like knives almost as much as I like my grills but I can't stress enough the personalness of them. Balance and feel are the most important.
Quote from: mike.stavlund on November 01, 2014, 03:50:16 PM
This is obviously a huge question, and you've already gotten some excellent expert advice.
I agree that the Victorinox are excellent knives, and an amazing value. You really can't go wrong starting with them. If I were starting from scratch, I'd start with a few of their knives, but I'd invest in a quality Japanese water stone for sharpening-- a 1000/4000 stone should be perfect. You probably already have a 'steel' for aligning the blade periodically.
I am a *huge* fan of the Japanese-style knives, with a single bevel. They are light, thin, durable, and have amazing balance. Tricky to learn how to sharpen, but definitely doable.
No surprise to hear this from a WKCer, but it's really fun to find knives second-hand. I've never had any luck at thrift stores, but have found some amazing German knives at estate sales for like a buck apiece. Some of my favorite blades, because they came with a story and a history.
Bottom line: the single most important aspect of a knife is *sharpness*. With that in mind, I'd recommend you start with cheaper knives (like, say, the Victorinox) and spend a bit more on a quality water stone and practice your skills there. Then you'll have a better idea of the dream knives you'd like to have, and you'll know how to care for them when they come to you.
I love japanese blades, my favorite being the convex edged Globals.
I really like Shun too, but my wife is a Lefty and the D shaped handles of the Shun are made for right handed chefs :(
ooh, never thought of the lefty/righty thing. I am never sure when I step up to use a tool or knife whether I am going to use it left handed or right handed. I am one of those weird people who does some things lefty and some right, but am not ambidextrous.
I eat, shoot guns, shoot pool and use tools left handed. I bat, throw, kick and write right handed. I am thinking that I use knives right handed, but will have to see next time I am trimming something lol
Victorinox has a restaurant line that is an excellent value. The steel is commercial grade. The non-slip plastic handle is ugly but, very useful.
Check them out at your local restaurant supply house or online at the link below/
http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victorinox-forschner/commercial-knives
We acquired our knives, one at at time. Love my Henkels, Zwillings, Victorinox, Sabatier, and one old very long Chicago Cutlery that attracts rust.