Minion method in a kettle help (maybe WSM or CB stacker guys have good input)

[austin87]

I'm cooking a cured pork butt for sliced pork, and I tried to use my vortex wide side up to contain my coals since I don't have a charcoal ring. The thought process for wide side up is that as the coals burn down, the shape will funnel them together, similar to the Slow'n'Sear. Vortex off to one side with pork butt off-set and away from the vortex.

I filled the small vortex with Stubbs and some wood chunks, lit 10 briquettes in my mini-chimney, and poured them into the center of the vortex on top of the rest of the unlit coals. I was taking grate temp with my Maverick and dialed down the lower vent to mostly closed at 200 degrees. I was shooting for anywhere between 225 and 275 but I couldn't keep the temps from creeping up, no matter how much I closed down the vents (bottom vent shut and top vent about 1/2 open). I got up to 330 before putting a water pan over the top of the vortex and that finally seems to have settled me in at 250. Besides opening the lid at about 250 to put on the meat, I kept the lid closed to keep oxygen from letting the fire get out of control.

Any tips? I prefer to not use a water pan but maybe it's essential for this application? Did I let my temps get too high initially? Do I need to start closing vents down sooner at maybe 150-175 to stabilize in the 250 range?

Luckily it's a pork butt and they are so forgiving on temp swings, but I'd really like to get this down. I know lump responds better to reducing airflow than briquettes do, so maybe that's a better way to go next time.

Also - I know the snake is a great option but I am trying to learn and perfect a minion method, so please don't chime in with "use a snake!"

[CharliefromLI]

I don't have any experience with the Vortex but I'd like to try one out for indirect cooks and reverse sear. I don't know if it's the ideal tool for slow and low for pork butt. If youre doing a butt on a kettle I think the snake is the way to go.

[1911Ron]

I would start fewer coals for a lower temp and catch the temp on the way up and not try to choke it down. I use the snake when I do low and slow in the Kettle and the minion when I use my Mini wsm or my UDS.

[SmokenJoe]

@austin87  I just spent 10 minutes writing an analysis of how your Vortex should have worked just fine w/ the Modified Minion Method.  When it was finished, I reread it a couple of times and couldn't understand a thing I said   Nor did I believe myself

Here is my advise  ...  it's a kettle, use a tried and true method for the cook on that kettle  ...  for example, L&S: WSM use a Modified Minion, Kettle use a Fuse; for Searing: use a Vortex; etc.

[swamprb]

WTF is a Modified Minion?

Jim Minion uses a Harbor Freight Weed torch, and he calls it "lighting his cooker"

Let me get this straight-you are using a Stacker, the Vortex for the charcoal ring and cooking direct with the meat off to the side? 

Are you using a kettle with daisy wheel vents or a One Touch?

I use small diameter charcoal rings with the Stacker and Cajun Bandit Conversion, so, I don't see where using the Vortex is an issue, but cooking direct with it certainly will be. You'll not get low temps using the Stacker without some sort of indirect heat deflector, be it a waterpan or pizza pan.



I've got 1/8" steel discs that I use with the 18" & 22" Stackers and Kettle Conversions.





You'll still be relatively close to the heat source cooking direct, and judging from what you said, adding the waterpan helped stabilize the temps, so, you kind of have that covered.

But what I have found is how very little intake is needed for the Cajun Bandit to run at 275* and how fickle it can be when you open the lid or adjust the bottom vents.
I use one for a chicken cooker at comps with a Rib-O-Lator and I got tired of my teammates constantly fiddling with the intake, and temps spiking - that I blocked off 2 of the intake holes with aluminum high temp duct tape and just have one opening to control and it worked wonders.

I look at it as a High Heat cooker and Reverse Sear machine.  275* is a sweet spot for it, but I also like that If needed it can crank to 450+ indirect.

Just for the hell of it I added a BBQ Guru adapter and just wire it up if I want a no hassle Low n Slow cooker.



Seriously, I use a weed torch to start all my cookers. Basically just flame the briqs or lump until the edges start to ash over and then assemble the cooker whether an Egg, Drum or WSM and Cajun Bandit and have the meat ready to go. In the case of a WSM, I'll have all the vents open until it reaches my desired temp, put the meat on and close the back 2 vents and control the intake with the vent placed in front.







The temps will drop when you put the meat on the grates, but will settle in with the one vent in @15 minutes and the vent usually rides open @50% to maintain 250-275*. That's the good thing about bullets-they are tight and dial in easy.

CB takes a little getting used to. Give the vent block a shot and see if it makes life simpler.

[Metal Mike]

Heat rises, maybe try 8 lit coals @ Only one side of bottom then fill rest of V. w/ unlit & Yes, catch the temp sooner.

eg. the SnS (minion) lighting instructions say it well on the site
http://www.abcbarbecue.com/

[OGlenn]

With the setup you described, you would need some sort of heat baffle to keep the heat from directly reaching the meat, whether it be a water pan, a steel disk like swamp uses, or even a pizza pan. The baffle will also absorb some heat energy, keeping the temps above in the cooking zone a little lower. With my CB stacker, I've had good success with the minion method using the stainless Weber wok as my baffle, as I can add a little water to it if I happen to take the lid off for an extended period and need to get the temp back down. The key is to try not let the temps get too high to begin with, but stuff happens. I start my minion by using a lighter cube at the bottom of my charcoal pile to get a handful of coals lit. Vent openings will differ depending on wind and ambient temps, but generally with a daisy wheeled cooker, I'm only using one open vent, usually 50% closed or more, with lid vents wide open.  Only time I will fiddle with the top vent is to choke down temps, but you want to try to avoid it coming to that if at all possible.

[SmokenJoe]

WTF is a Modified Minion?

Maybe your comment was rhetorical, I couldn't tell from the context, but since I'm tying anyways:   

A few other WSM & Kettle cooks have used alternate methods of starting their cookers based on the original Minion Method.  To my recollection, these various mod's are collectively called "modified Minion methods".  One uses a botomless coffee can in the center of the un-lit pile.  Another, sometimes refered to as the (Harry) Soo Donut, simply creates an inverted cone shaped hole for some lit coals to go in.

I'll post a pic of the way I start my WSM L&S cooks  ...  a Soo Donut when I can get pics.WKC.com to work for me again.   

Jim Minion uses a Harbor Freight Weed torch, and he calls it "lighting his cooker"

Yes, that IS his current starting method after some re-eval of his original idea                                SJ

[SmokenJoe]

Here is the quick-pic of the Soo donut method  ...  sorry about the soft focus                                    SJ

[austin87]

@OGlenn I had my vortex pushed to the side and the butt on the other side, so I was definitely getting indirect heat.

@SmokenJoe I wish I had gotten some more pics of the setup. Similar to the Soo Donut you show. Looking at that pic though, I probably should have let my coals get a little further along I the chimney, and made a bigger well for the lit coals.

Even when I go snake I tend to run up a bit, my 2x2 snake with 12 coals to start runs at least 250-275 on a 22". I've also been using my dome therm as a gauge of grate temp because I was too lazy to bust out the Maverick I bought myself for Christmas. Now I'm using it far more often as a tool to teach myself what happens in certain conditions. I used to feel a little too snobby for therms but realize that is essentially refusing to learn and dooming myself to mystery,

I'll stop using my Maverick when I can hit 225-250 every single time and I have a consistent, repeatable process. And I still have a long way to go, but that is so much of the fun.

[SmokenJoe]

@austin87  Stick to using your therm.  When "it" says your in your temp range, add the temp that your dome therm says it is to your log also.  That way, when you hav the confidence to start to just go by your dome thermo, you'll know what cooking grate temp corresponds to any particular dome temp.  The Soo donut pic didn't look that "hot" when I started out to find my camera    I finally gave up on the camera and used my phone (thus the focus issue).  For this Port Butt cook, as I recall, I started with 25 lit into a full ring of unlit (the 25 come partly from the hole and partly new since they burn down in size as they lite up).                            SJ

[swamprb]

@OGlenn I had my vortex pushed to the side and the butt on the other side, so I was definitely getting indirect heat.

@SmokenJoe I wish I had gotten some more pics of the setup. Similar to the Soo Donut you show. Looking at that pic though, I probably should have let my coals get a little further along I the chimney, and made a bigger well for the lit coals.

Even when I go snake I tend to run up a bit, my 2x2 snake with 12 coals to start runs at least 250-275 on a 22". I've also been using my dome therm as a gauge of grate temp because I was too lazy to bust out the Maverick I bought myself for Christmas. Now I'm using it far more often as a tool to teach myself what happens in certain conditions. I used to feel a little too snobby for therms but realize that is essentially refusing to learn and dooming myself to mystery,

I'll stop using my Maverick when I can hit 225-250 every single time and I have a consistent, repeatable process. And I still have a long way to go, but that is so much of the fun.

What type kettle are you using - One Touch or Daisy vents?

Here is the quick-pic of the Soo donut method  ...  sorry about the soft focus                                    SJ

So, the Soo donut is a modified coffee can firing. OK well that is news to me. Whatever we wanna call it if it works.

WTF is a Modified Minion?

Maybe your comment was rhetorical, I couldn't tell from the context, but since I'm tying anyways:   

A few other WSM & Kettle cooks have used alternate methods of starting their cookers based on the original Minion Method.  To my recollection, these various mod's are collectively called "modified Minion methods".  One uses a botomless coffee can in the center of the un-lit pile.  Another, sometimes refered to as the (Harry) Soo Donut, simply creates an inverted cone shaped hole for some lit coals to go in.

I'll post a pic of the way I start my WSM L&S cooks  ...  a Soo Donut when I can get pics.WKC.com to work for me again.   

Jim Minion uses a Harbor Freight Weed torch, and he calls it "lighting his cooker"

Yes, that IS his current starting method after some re-eval of his original idea                                SJ

And he cooks on Primo's

[OGlenn]

@OGlenn I had my vortex pushed to the side and the butt on the other side, so I was definitely getting indirect heat.

@SmokenJoe I wish I had gotten some more pics of the setup. Similar to the Soo Donut you show. Looking at that pic though, I probably should have let my coals get a little further along I the chimney, and made a bigger well for the lit coals.

Even when I go snake I tend to run up a bit, my 2x2 snake with 12 coals to start runs at least 250-275 on a 22". I've also been using my dome therm as a gauge of grate temp because I was too lazy to bust out the Maverick I bought myself for Christmas. Now I'm using it far more often as a tool to teach myself what happens in certain conditions. I used to feel a little too snobby for therms but realize that is essentially refusing to learn and dooming myself to mystery,

I'll stop using my Maverick when I can hit 225-250 every single time and I have a consistent, repeatable process. And I still have a long way to go, but that is so much of the fun.

I can't emphasize enough that unless you want to cook hot n fast rather than low and slow, a baffle of some sort is necessary between the heat source and the food. You did this by putting a water pan over the vortex.

The vortex is conical shaped and with the extra height of the stacker, even setting the meat to one side of the stacker wont provide true low and slow cooking without a baffle. Frankly, I haven't had any success with the vortex for anything except high heat cooks, especially wings, where it excels.