Just watched an episode of Good Eats where AB talks about BBQ. Of particular interest is his explanation of smoke at 29:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTXXnqt0I1M.
The entire episode is worth watching. Also up for discussion is his wheel installation visible at 24:53 ???
I enjoyed the entire episode.
@ 35:20......"As far as I'm concerned, BBQ sauce is the last refuge of a BBQ scoundrel.............."
Thanks for the link!
That's a great episode.
At about 38:00, you can see where he drilled holes in his leg sockets to attach an ash ring too. (He must be a fan of the H-style ash sweep like me.)
...and it seems like you'd want to turn your top vent to the side *opposite* the fire. Maybe that was an oversight, or maybe it works better. Never tried it myself.
Great post. Wish I had seen it a couple days sooner....
Being noobs but wanting to be all hip with smoke, we yesterday bought some mesquite chips, soaked per the instructions, put just a few on the coals.... a promptly got engulfed in VERY visible smoke!
The cooking grate (and presumably everything else the smoke contacted) instantly turned a golden brown...which I assume is the bad stuff he discusses in the video. Doesn't seem to want to come off with the SS brush. Hitting my head against the wall right now thinking I've ruined our brand now OTG...
sunsanvil
I really don't believe you've ruined anything, but try using dry wood, perhaps larger pieces, if available & only a personal preference here, but avoid mesquite....it really puts a heavy flavor quite & is a pretty oily wood (seems you know this already )
This is small oak chunks,
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/1-13-2013%20%20P%20Tender/1-13-2013PTender001.jpg)
used for a quick cook, seen here ~~~>
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/food-pr0n/pork-tenderloins/
You can pretty much add wood for flavor to any cook, but always keep in mind the wood itself is also added fuel, meaning added heat.....that mesquite is one of the hottest............
If you'd like to use chips, just load a large handful in a double or triple thick aluminium foil packet
( make one up by hand ) wrap semi-tight (so the chips don't punch thru ) poke 4~5 small holes in the packet, get rolling on your cookup & flop the packet on the coals.......it will huff & puff for 15~30 minutes & pretty much let you know by looking when it spent.....more smoke? more packets........
Or, you can just be silly like me & throw loose chips on the coals, they burn faster, but you'll still get the flavoring.....
As far as cleaning what you have layered onto the surfaces, not sure what would work good.....you could do the whole take apart scrub down, into the garbage bag with oven cleaner, hose off, dry off, re-assemble, run a load of charcoal to make sure cleaners are gone.......
.....OR, like I do, just keep cooking.......the wife went out & bought her own OTG brand new after this: "I smelled all yours & they ALL smelled like smoke..."
What 1buckie said above ^^^^^^^
Lately, when I add the lit charcoal to the kettle, I also add the wood chunks for the pre-heat stage.
Initilly, lots of white smoke. After about 25-30 minutes, add your food and such.
I can usually get the desired blue smoke after doing this. I use fruit wood (apple, pear, and cherry), and sugar maple.
My mistake, it was Hickory...but it still smoked up like crazy! Scared to try it again for fear of the dreaded "bad" smoke...
Hickory is also fairly heavy, maybe try cherry or apple to start with....they're lighter in flavor & will get you into the game a little easier without going overboard..........i'd hate to see you shy away from a whole 'nuther aspect of things from one or two bad experiences........
See what MacEggs is saying about getting the wood going & burning clean, then add the food......that order of appearance may work better when you're just starting out with such things...... ;D
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
I am just finishing this video after four days of trying.
Alton's full of it."BBq sauce is what people put on bad bbq to make it taste like good bbq"
First, I love bbq sauce on the side and don't want to eat bbq without some because it tastes good.
Mesquite, my favorite smoke wood overall, not giving it up ever! I don't usually use it for long cooks like pork because I like oak or peach better with pork and with beef it's usually oak or walnut. With chicken and fish it's always mesquite preferably manzanita when I have it.
Does anyone here regularly brine their butts? It looks like a good idea and I might give it a try on my next one.
I like AB. I think he was way off base on a few things in this episode. His style is somewhat conveyed in 'absolutes', which rubs me the wrong way at times. That statement was one of those times. All in all, I actually did not care for the episode.
When he had the guru hooked up to the kettle, was the top vent closed?
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
But if I somehow felt...compelled to try :), is baking soda ok for plated grates and the inside of the lid?
Quote from: G$ on June 10, 2013, 03:42:28 PM
I like AB. I think he was way off base on a few things in this episode. His style is somewhat conveyed in 'absolutes', which rubs me the wrong way at times. That statement was one of those times. All in all, I actually did not care for the episode.
When he had the guru hooked up to the kettle, was the top vent closed?
Yeah, he has some good ideas, but his word isn't law. I mean, I highly doubt any of us is going to run out and buy a hot plate anytime soon. LOL!
I did like the way he put two rib racks together to fit those ribs. For smoking on the OT kettle I just barley crack the bottom vent and let it rip. It doesn't need to stay locked at 225 for the whole cook, just close.
I also think he uses too many gadgets and too many steps for "bbq". Yeah that's right, you could have done all of that at the same time with one 22.5 WSM an RK or two regular 22.5 kettles for that matter and skipped the rest.
I vote we send Buckie over there to punch him in the nose! Then give him a lesson on bbqing the Weber way.
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 10, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
But if I somehow felt...compelled to try :), is baking soda ok for plated grates and the inside of the grill and the inside of the lid?
Fogettaboutit! Just keep on smoki'n! 8)
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 10, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
But if I somehow felt...compelled to try :), is baking soda ok for plated grates and the inside of the lid?
Sunsanvil..... The lid is going to be gunked up with smoke and charcoal residue the third time you cook on it. Cleanign for the sake of removing The residue from some hickory wood chips is a bit of a waSte of effort. Baking soda would not hurt anything, but is not the most effective way to clean those either.
Quote from: Duke on June 10, 2013, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: G$ on June 10, 2013, 03:42:28 PM
I like AB. I think he was way off base on a few things in this episode. His style is somewhat conveyed in 'absolutes', which rubs me the wrong way at times. That statement was one of those times. All in all, I actually did not care for the episode.
When he had the guru hooked up to the kettle, was the top vent closed?
Yeah, he has some good ideas, but his word isn't law. I mean, I highly doubt any of us is going to run out and buy a hot plate anytime soon. LOL!
I did like the way he put two rib racks together to fit those ribs. For smoking on the OT kettle I just barley crack the bottom vent and let it rip. It doesn't need to stay locked at 225 for the whole cook, just close.
I also think he uses too many gadgets and too many steps for "bbq". Yeah that's right, you could have done all of that at the same time with one 22.5 WSM an RK or two regular 22.5 kettles for that matter and skipped the rest.
I vote we send Buckie over there to punch him in the nose! Then give him a lesson on bbqing the Weber way.
i'm just now seeing this..........being more of a lover than a fighter, I'd probably just cut straight to the BBQ lesson plan...... 8)
Oh, and
Sunsanvil, I thought of a quick way you can clean a lot of that from at least the grates......ball up a wad of aluminium foil, grab firmly w/tongs & scrub back & forth when grate is hot.....should take care a most of the coating of "stuff"....... 8)
Duke, I brine my butts all the time. I actually use Alton's butt recipe (not the one he uses in this episode, but in an earlier episode where he adds a (salt-free) as a follow-up to the brine). I find that brining puts a nice sweet/salt flavor evenly all through the meat, but still gives a bit more salty 'bite' on the bark. Plus it's pretty easy and adds some moisture to the butts too. And then you can really load on the rub without worrying about it over-salting the meat (since your rub can be salt-free).
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 07:06:16 PM
Duke, I brine my butts all the time. I actually use Alton's butt recipe (not the one he uses in this episode, but in an earlier episode where he adds a (salt-free) as a follow-up to the brine). I find that brining puts a nice sweet/salt flavor evenly all through the meat, but still gives a bit more salty 'bite' on the bark. Plus it's pretty easy and adds some moisture to the butts too. And then you can really load on the rub without worrying about it over-salting the meat (since your rub can be salt-free).
Very cool, I am going to give it a shot. Please post the brine recipe or better yet just do a butt and post the complete cook start to finish. :)
Quote from: G$ on June 10, 2013, 03:42:28 PM
I like AB. I think he was way off base on a few things in this episode. His style is somewhat conveyed in 'absolutes', which rubs me the wrong way at times. That statement was one of those times. All in all, I actually did not care for the episode.
When he had the guru hooked up to the kettle, was the top vent closed?
Hey G$ it's a pitmasterIQ, and yes they recommend that you run it with all vents closed.
It may be awhile before I do a butt, so here's the recipe just in case. I back off on the chili powder to keep my kids interested in pulled pork, but otherwise I use the exact ingredients. Using very fine salt (measuring by weight, not volume) allows the brine to be built without heating it at all.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pulled-pork-recipe/index.html
I noticed in the later episode posted above, he uses the same brine but leaves out the rub.
Reflecting on the show a bit, cant really take him too seriously since (from what I can gather) people the world over have been smoking with these kettles for years...decades even, without microprocessor controlled fans.
Now I'm sure the later makes life a whole lot simpler, but short of that, what are some real world strategies for keeping a kettle under 300 for a handful of hours without the modern aid?
First off, for the loooong cook the PitmasterIQ does great! ( 10 hours + ) now a minion method also helps. I use it in conjunction with some SS shields. I have been able to hold in the 250-275 range with this setup (pictured below) and although I have never used it some swear by the snake method also.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/4ugutaba.jpg)
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 11, 2013, 03:40:01 AM
Reflecting on the show a bit, cant really take him too seriously since (from what I can gather) people the world over have been smoking with these kettles for years...decades even, without microprocessor controlled fans.
Now I'm sure the later makes life a whole lot simpler, but short of that, what are some real world strategies for keeping a kettle under 300 for a handful of hours without the modern aid?
"for years...decades even"...............some still do.............
Trust the process & some practice...........
Beef, mainly..
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-beef-recipes/something-different/
Pork, mostly........
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/re-print-ok-what's-in-kettle-3/
This is not the only way to run @ 250 or so for long periods, just the easiest I've found;
a few of the photos overlap, but were used 'cause they demonstrated things well.......
These ones have some pics & comments that may be helpful also.......
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/previous-it's-peaceful-at-night/
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/food-pr0n/bob's-beef-o-rama/
Brisket point ~~>
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-6-2013%20%20Beef/3-6-2013Beef069.jpg)
A lot of people will use the temp monitors, for internal meat temp & cooker grate temp, but with no fans/ blowers/ extra attachments added....
Here's an example from One Touch Platinum that shows this ~~~>
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/some-butt!/
I have one, but have never got it out of the box, the dogs just wake me up to check on things........
I found the video amusing. I thought the part where he said something like" You could/would never smoke meat on a kettle.." was funny, what better way is there? Since I have switched to my Weber all of my smokes are hassle free and efficient.....and they taste GREAT! When I smoke a butt, like the one in the link 1buckie posted....it takes me about 8 hours. I don't have to do much to tend my fire until about 6 hours into it. (Coal lined up around edge of grill with small amount lit on one end to start long slow burn of the rest). I also have not had much issue with the stall doing the butts on my Platinum either. I don't brine butts but I do inject them. I know some guys who swear by brining and may try it sometime. When I smoke a butt...(how many times can I use the word butt in one post? ::)....I can almost set my watch by the cook time minus a few variables....mostly wind.....I always start them by 8am and take them off around 4 or 4:30pm. I always wrap them after they come off and let them rest for at least an hour and if I happen to be way ahead of schedule I will wrap them and stick them in a cooler for as long as it takes for dinner time.....I have done this before for several hours and the meat was still too hot to pull with my bare fingers. I always pull the Butt off the grill when it hits 200 degrees. I will check at that time to see if it is fork tender and it always is by then....and that's it. I don't understand why he would cook the meat on the grill/smoker and then finish in the oven. A guy I work with just did a 10 pound butt over the weekend. And when I say OVER the weekend I mean it. He said he smoked it for 16 hours! :o I asked him what temp he was running his grill at? He said 225. I must be doing something wrong because I like to eat the meat the same day that I started cooking it. :) I use the Temp probe whenever I do anything smoked or reverse seared, which is most of what I do. I use it when I do steaks, chicken,butts etc. If I reverse sear something I will pull the probe 10 degrees shy of my target temp and will use my instant read thermometer to check the temp as I am searing and pull the meat 5 degrees shy of the target temp. Let the meat rest for a few minutes so it will go up the last 5 degrees and then eat. I didn't know I needed to add all that shit to my Weber in order to do ribs or pork butts.....I guess I better just put my Weber out on the curb this week for trash day. ::)
Quote from: 1buckie on June 11, 2013, 06:10:20 AM
A lot of people will use the temp monitors, for internal meat temp & cooker grate temp, but with no fans/ blowers/ extra attachments added....
<raises hand> That includes me. But that's usually on a WSM which is better suited to a low 'n slow style of indirect cooking. I have no desire to go beyond that because I find the control via vent position sufficient. However on a kettle I'm sure that devices like this can make life easier.
I enjoy watching AB because I feel that he provides a lot of background information that helps me to understand what is going on. I also see him doing things that interest me enough to want to try. (Perhaps I'll brine the next butt I smoke.) I don't agree with everything he says or does, though I don't doubt that what he describes works.
And FWIW I neither sauce nor foil ribs or butts though I usually use some Sweet baby Ray's when reheating ribs and like a home made mustard style sauce on my pulled pork.
BobHope, thanks for the reply, that blows my mind that the iQ is run with the vents closed. Have you ever tried running it with the top vent slightly opened? I am truly gobsmacked that they run with all vents closed. :o
And on temp controllers and whether one can not be talken 'seriously' when using them....
I have had stokers for my WSMs for years, primarily for when we are doing BBQ Competitions. I assure you they are a tool of the serious! One of these days I am going to hook one up to a kettle for fun, but when I am going low and slow I typically use one of my WSMs.
Quote from: HankB on June 11, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
I enjoy watching AB because I feel that he provides a lot of background information that helps me to understand what is going on. I also see him doing things that interest me enough to want to try. (Perhaps I'll brine the next butt I smoke.) I don't agree with everything he says or does, though I don't doubt that what he describes works.
Yeah Hank, this sums my general views on AB up as well, and is why I generally like him and the show, but did not care for this episode. You see, I do not doubt what he says works, what I doubt is that what he says is the ONLY way it works .......(which is often his implication).
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
Amen Brother!
Quote from: TheFinkFarm on June 12, 2013, 03:56:28 AM
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
Amen Brother!
Hey Guys.....not bashing a good hickory smoke, but I've seen more than once, someone try out over-smoked or ill-smoked hickory & be turned off of smoked foods for awhile, maybe longer.....
But if someone's just starting to use wood flavoring, I was thinking this ~~>
" Hickory is also fairly heavy, maybe try cherry or apple to start with....they're lighter in flavor & will get you into the game a little easier without going overboard..........i'd hate to see you shy away from a whole 'nuther aspect of things from one or two bad experiences........"
I like a good strong smoke flavor, including Black Walnut, which is real strong.............
I can also put the skin back on skinless chicken with oak...... 8)
Quote from: 1buckie on June 12, 2013, 05:17:32 AM
I like a good strong smoke flavor, including Black Walnut, which is real strong.............
I can also put the skin back on skinless chicken with oak...... 8)
Interesting that you found Black Walnut strong. I found it mild.
Other mild woods include oak and maple. Around here there is a lot of Box Elder which is actually a maple. I have used it.
The black walnut that grows around here is intense, esp. if it's fairly fresh....the stuff I have is approx. 13 yrs. old....I just cut down into the core of it to get 'clean' wood & it's still fairly strong.......
Quote from: 1buckie on June 12, 2013, 05:17:32 AM
Quote from: TheFinkFarm on June 12, 2013, 03:56:28 AM
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
Amen Brother!
Hey Guys.....not bashing a good hickory smoke, but I've seen more than once, someone try out over-smoked or ill-smoked hickory & be turned off of smoked foods for awhile, maybe longer.....
But if someone's just starting to use wood flavoring, I was thinking this ~~>
" Hickory is also fairly heavy, maybe try cherry or apple to start with....they're lighter in flavor & will get you into the game a little easier without going overboard..........i'd hate to see you shy away from a whole 'nuther aspect of things from one or two bad experiences........"
I like a good strong smoke flavor, including Black Walnut, which is real strong.............
I can also put the skin back on skinless chicken with oak...... 8)
Well Buckie, out here Hickory is plentiful. It used to be utilized in making furniture (when we had a furniture industry in NC). Now hickory is plentiful in my woods and I use it to heat my house (wood stove). I use it to cook with also. You got to remember, a lot of the cooking we do with hickory is we use the coals. Burn the hickory in a burn barrel, shovel the burning coals into the bottom of the cooker, and go whole hog.
Growing up (for the most part) in this region, I have had that hickory smoke and flavor so many times I would not know what to do without it. Guess it's in my blood now.
I use other wood also, apple, oak, maple, cherry and pecan. I use what I cut. I'm an environmentalist. No waste....
Now black walnut, I don't think I could use that. Would I try it? Sure, why not.
I have heard of people using cedar. I don't think I'm gonna try that one.
KCSO,,, Keep Calm and Smoke On... 8)
Fink !!!!
Great to see you !!!!!!
Absolutely nothing against hickory, like I said....1st "smoked" anything I can remember was some hickory smoked cheddar, I think from Knott's Berry Farm, by Disneyland.....LOVED IT !!!!
It's just that throwing on chips & chunks, not being quite like the burnt down coals, may go overboard for someone just getting their sea legs......
PS: the last butt I did with black walnut came out completely pink all the way thru & tasted GREAT !!!!!
Well, just watched the episode.
Good overall, but like others, I always get a little turned off when I hear anybody talk about hard and fast rules in BBQ. Anybody ever read the low and slow book by gary wiviote? same thing. rubs me the wrong way...ive eaten briskets cooked at 375 over kingsford that were fantastic, as well as briskets cooked at 220 over post oak for 18 hours. more than one way to get good Q.
Right on, Fink. I got the hickory bug from eating with my wife's family in Tennessee, and have a nice stash of hickory from their property. It does have some serious flavor, but I don't find it to be off-putting in proper proportion. In fact, I normally prefer apple for poultry, but I'm out and so used hickory to smoke a chicken this afternoon. It was amazing: subtle smoke notes and a little sweet.
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 10, 2013, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: mike.stavlund on June 10, 2013, 12:25:29 PM
If a grill stained with hickory smoke is wrong, I don't want to be right.
;-)
But if I somehow felt...compelled to try :), is baking soda ok for plated grates and the inside of the lid?
If you really want to clean an almost new grill.
Get some Dawn and an SOS or 0000 steel wool... Scrub and rinse. If its not clean like new, you may have to get some Easy Off oven cleaner. Just rinse it really well. Make a small fire to really burn and dry it out. I doubt any residule smoke will affect future cooks. Weber are impervious! 8)
Ok...so I'm still a little at odds with his discourse in the video about "invisible smoke: Good / Visible smoke: bad". Been experimenting and even just a pinch of soaked hickory chips produces very visible smoke.
If you have chips already, try not soaking.....wrap them in a double thickness foil pouch, maybe 5 x7 inches & poke 3~4 small holes in it after wrapping it up.....flat pouch......lay on good, hot coals & it should smoke for 20 minutes or so.....try maybe 2 or 3 pouches during your cookup & see where your smoke flavor ends up.....adjust accordingly from there.....
I like small chunked wood, lasts a bit longer......I'm in the "no soak" camp.....believe the fire just has to work harder to burn off moisture before doing the same thing it was going to do anyway...... 8)
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 24, 2013, 03:19:00 AM
Ok...so I'm still a little at odds with his discourse in the video about "invisible smoke: Good / Visible smoke: bad". Been experimenting and even just a pinch of soaked hickory chips produces very visible smoke.
Don't be mislead into thinking that just because it happens on your consumer grill and nobody died that day means it's safe. As he says in the video, the invisible and the visible smoke are actually made up of
different things, tar and PAHs etc. in the latter --- visible smoke isn't "just more smoke." Extra heat turns it into something cancerous and this is known, not a guess.
As Buckie says, wrap that stuff in foil. This slows down it's burn. Poke holes so that it can burn or release a
little smoke. The other stuff like metal smoke boxes or smoke trays do a similar function of shielding the wood from a direct burn. Even the bigger pieces Buckie uses won't burn as fast.
Regarding wet wood, too-fresh wood, soaked wood: the reason it's more susceptible to heavier smoking is because this creates steam, and smoke that you can readily see is more made up of
suspended droplets of moisture. This is how and why smoke is a colloid: "A colloid is a substance microscopically dispersed throughout another substance."
So smoke is [stuff] dispersed with water's help, but a big part of what you see as "smoke" is just the moisture. The burnt particles are essentially microscopic and so it take a lot of it to become visible. Fascinating shit when you think about it.
To disperse more water you need more heat, both of which create visible and badder smoke. It's a 1-2 punch to your health. That last part is why he says avoid mesquite >> it burns hot, too hot, and gives off more bad smoke.
****************
Related to that are the stories that got published starting around 10 years ago that warned against cooking fatty meat on direct, high heat. The fat drips down on hot coals and creates a lot of smoke with not just PAHs but HCAs too. Burning animal fat isn't good when
deposited back onto the meat in burnt vapor form. You can however scrape/peel off the black from a burned hot dog or peel off burned chicken skin, and you should. If that stuff tastes like tar it's because it is!
Maybe I worded that wrong. I buy every word he said which is why I'm a bit concerned when I see smoke now. I'm just trying to understand why, so far, I can only seem to get bad smoke out of my hickory chips. I like to approach things like this analytically.
Is it simply that they are getting too hot? If so putting them "on the coals" seems like the worst instructions a package could give. :)
I'll try the tin foil wrap next time.
"I like to approach things like this analytically."
~~~> sunsanvil
Well....OK !!!!
A small, hot, clean burning fire is what you aim for......you cannot avoid smoke from burning wood entirely, it's what burning wood does.....
Burning chips on a hot fire will burn them up quickly, hence the smoker box, or foil packet to slow down the consumption.....it may easily be that what you're concerned about (the visible smoke) would be compounded by smouldering in a pouch or box.....it creates a dilemma that we'll try to solve......
An example:
When I do long smokes, 11~15 hours & line up the coals & wood chunks like so ~~>
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/Jan29%20Danae%20%20dad%20002/Jan29Danaedad020.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/Jan29%20Danae%20%20dad%20002/Jan29Danaedad021.jpg)
It will burn around the ring, charcoal lighting charcoal, until it hits a piece of wood.....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/Jan29%20Danae%20%20dad%20002/Jan29Danaedad057.jpg)
All of the above cookers are lit, 5 in a row, see where a couple are puffing smoke, that's ones that have currently hit the wood chunk.....
It will smoulder some, for a few minutes, but if I've done my job in lining up the original setup, will soon go thin blue to almost none at all........AT THAT POINT, it's still burning wood & adding smoke flavor to the food, just that it's burning nice & clean....
I learned some of this from having been around wood burning stoves at various times & learned about the intakle's effect on getting a small heater stove to heat a room all night long, maybe adding wood once.....
Here's a photo I borrowed from Alien BBQ of Roswell, NM that shows very clearly the difference between white & blue ~~>
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/Cookers%202012/new%20cookers%202013/Weber%20meetup/p1010224.jpg)
The link to a good display of info on some of this, I found (same place as above photo ^^)
here:
http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11458
And also here:
http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17614&sid=d241947886c7cbd97895ab49a46abc48
A lot of what they're talking about in those links is OFFSET smokers, but quite a few of the principles still apply....my particular "dog & pony show" is to find more & more refined ways to replicate this on a Weber.....kettle, in particular............Golly & in particular Hogsy from Austalia have fixed up setups to do things I've never even thought of....as have others both here & on other forums.....
On an offset cooker a recommendation I see quite a lot is to pre-heat the wood splits on TOP of the firebox & as those pre-heated pieces go in, set a few more on top to pre-heat...Why?
To get them closer to the temprature they'll burn at & REDUCE the amout of puffy white "catch" or start-up smoke......
I accomplish this by setting the chunks around the ring, sort of evenly spaced & as the charcoal burns up to the chunk, it pre-heats it to some extent......reduces the smouldery burn time......if doing a short, quick cook, but maybe wanting extra smoke flavor, just will set a few blocks on the lid of the kettle, while the 1st batch is burning....
This cook shows some decent shots of that happening....keep in mind, in order to takes pictures, the lid is open & there's a rush of oxygen at that point.....
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/food-pr0n/bob's-beef-o-rama/
Numerous people here & abroad ( other forums & continents) have Weber Smokey Moutain Cookers that do this, generally lower heat thing pretty well, some have offset cookers & swear by those also.....
They're all useable cookers, if you pay attention to the fire / heat source & get to learning what each cooker will do well & it's pitfalls.....
Back to the kettle, tho.....
if you use foil packet or a smoker cast iron / steel box, it will allow less smoke at a time.....
IT STILL needs to work with a smaller-than-you-think-hot-burning-fire.....it does take some practice.....
Examples....
Chicken I run at a higher than most other items heat....it gets cooked thru better & stays juicier
( let's leave out brining & marinating, for the moment) AND poultry will take on smoke much more quickly than a lot of other foods...... a couple small or med. chunks for say, a batch of chicken breast or thighs is plenty, others may like more, but that's what I've found....equivalent might be one big pouch of chip......
Ground meats...meatloaf & fatties & such....will take on smoke also faster than other items....last meatloafs I did were small individual sized & I just threw a handful of hickory chips on, dry & loose,
twice.....they were also ground turkey, so had to be careful to not go overboard......
Cooking.....note the bluish smoke, running at just over 300 degrees for this....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-10-2013%20%20Bacon/3-10-2013Bacon081.jpg)
Finished shot.....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-10-2013%20%20Bacon/3-10-2013Bacon098.jpg)
A large part of the reddish color is smoke.....this was a throwndown run-off, so I was out for blood........game face get-up ~~>
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-10-2013%20%20Bacon/3-10-2013Bacon085.jpg)
So.....before I get too far off track..... :o.................
The larger cuts & esp. beef items, can take an extra load of smoke & still be OK.....it's a more stout & heavier flavor than say, fish of some type, which is mostly pretty delicate & can go usually lighter............
What does all this mean in reguard to the 1st statement up above:
"Burning chips on a hot fire will burn them up quickly, hence the smoker box, or foil packet to slow down the consumption.....it may easily be that what you're concerned about (the visible smoke) would be compounded by smouldering in a pouch or box.....it creates a dilemma that we'll try to solve......"
Keep the fire as small & hot as you can, thereby keeping the wood burning as cleanly as is possible under whatever current conditions you have going.....
Another thing is I've taken to thinking about "smoke" more as an added flavoring, like a rub, marinade, or injection...approaching it that way has helped in deciding how much, when, for how long, at what heat, etc.......
It is also a preservative, a way to get stuff to last longer was a large part of the original use of smoke........since we now have television, that original intent seems to get lost in the shuffle sometimes.......
This Site has an endless supply of info on traditional smoking....I've sent the Photo Gallery page (which has all sorts of setups, a lot from Europe ), but you can move around & locate all kinds of stuff on this site......
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/photos
Another page from the site, having to do with grilling & BBQ'ing....this one tells a tale: "Smoking., very low heat....52° – 140° F(12° - 60° C)....1 hour to 2 weeks....."
Makes me think I'm doing a disservice by calling most stuff "smoking", when it's actually BBQ......
Also contains a great tagline: "Have you ever seen people sitting around the propane grill, playing guitars and singing songs?"
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/barbecue
And here, where they talk about wet & dry wood, remember that they're also talking mostly about cured stuff like sausages & the like, but there is some good points on soaking, wet, dry, etc......
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/meat-smoking/wood
The Smoke Ring links address the question of "green" of freshly cut wood fairly well & I'm sure there are other disscussions at BBQ Bretheren, Smoking Meat Forum, TvvvWWBb & etc......
Buckie, you are a wealth of knowledge. I wish you lived close to me as I'd come over and try to absorb as much information from you as I possible could! You are a huge asset to this site.
thanks, Tim....
I heard a speaker / presenter say one time: "I'm almost totally un-scarred by education, but I read a lot..."
I was also reading back thru A-to-Smoke's piece about health concerns......
I've had people directly ask me NOT to cook foods (corn & such) in aluminium foil, as there's stuff that comes off of it, heated, that's not particularly healthy.......
Me, I smoke a heck of a lot of stuff, even vegan dishes & Boca burgers ( the veg-heads go nuts for this stuff, BTW....) AND I get all my friends and relatives to eat this delishious, un-healthy crap too.....we're all goin' ta hell in a Weber kettle shaped bucket !!!!!
@sunsanvil: Hope I didn't come off as too gung-ho.
@1buckie: I couldn't have said it any better than Tim did.
I especially appreciate the "preheat" aspect to help avoid a big "catch" from rapidly going from cool to hot very fast.
"I especially appreciate the "preheat" aspect to help avoid a big "catch" from rapidly going from cool to hot very fast."
^^^^ That's something I've found very useful.....the heating on the kettle lid I think I either came to by default, or got from MacEggs....he does that too.......
That's a way for anyone doing a shorter cook to get a edge.....not everyone wants to deal with 14 hour cookups.......
the additional info is all just fine, never really too gung-ho......unless you're bashing the heck out of somebody when their way may work just fine for them.......I try to stick to what I've found works & why.....seems the cleanest approach......
Now......Fatcap up.....or Fatcap down?
Quote from: 1buckie on June 25, 2013, 09:55:19 AM
"I like to approach things like this analytically."
~~~> sunsanvil
Well....OK !!!!
A tone of thanks for taking time out from the kettle for such a wealth of info/links in one post. Cheers.
Interestingly on Sunday as I was doing the chicken and tossing the occasional chip on the coals, at one point
after the initial billow of smoke I was sitting back staring at the vent (mesmerized?) and thought..."hey.....that smoke is blue in color!". :)
"(mesmerized?) and thought..."hey.....that smoke is blue in color!""
AWwwww....get outta town.....Really?
Just Kiddin' !!!!
So.....less worry, more fun.....tasty, tasty....FUN !!!!!
(mesmerized?)
This is another symtom of Weberitis..................BTW................ 8)
Yea it was pretty trippy. Had started to rain so I was sitting alone in a lawn chair under a golf umbrella watching the wisps of smoke, listening to the ting-hiss ting-hiss of raindrops hitting the dome...holding a glass of red, for some reason still wearing a massive weber oven mit. 8)
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 26, 2013, 07:14:38 AM
Yea it was pretty trippy. Had started to rain so I was sitting alone in a lawn chair under a golf umbrella watching the wisps of smoke, listening to the ting-hiss ting-hiss of raindrops hitting the dome...holding a glass of red, for some reason still wearing a massive weber oven mit. 8)
Damn, son, I can see it now ... I think you reached Another Level of Consciousness. Did George Stephens' face appear in the smoke wisps?
Quote from: sunsanvil on June 26, 2013, 07:14:38 AM
Yea it was pretty trippy. Had started to rain so I was sitting alone in a lawn chair under a golf umbrella watching the wisps of smoke, listening to the ting-hiss ting-hiss of raindrops hitting the dome...holding a glass of red, for some reason still wearing a massive weber oven mit. 8)
Whadda ya think, gang?
Might have gone around the bend......should we send in a "Team" or wait it out for awhile?
Oh, OK......reread this & also saw this:
"Another Level of Consciousness"...............................
It's just the "Altered State of Consciousness of the Smoke Shaman"......nuthin' to worry about, proceed as usual..... 8)
"Another Level of Consciousness" ????
That was wood you threw on the coals, right?
A conversation that was on Smoke Ring awhile ago about this soaking thing just cropped back up.....with a somewhat scientific testing of some aspects of the question....
http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60560&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Here's another one from Smoke Ring's "Commercial" section....
Giant AN Bewley industrial pit.....down low in the post, by the food pics (great, BTW !!)
he says it likes wet, unseaoned wood......however, this is pretty different than a 22-1/2" kettle.......
http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63658
This is a great thread. So many questions I've been meaning to ask have been answered
Thanks all ....... Especially Buckie for taking the time to explain some of the basics that often get overlooked