Weber Kettle Club Forums

Cooking & Food Talk => Charcoal Grilling & BBQ => Topic started by: haeffb on July 31, 2016, 04:03:04 AM

Title: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: haeffb on July 31, 2016, 04:03:04 AM
I don't have a Vortex, and am trying to understand why I need one. I hear it used most for cooking wings and getting them crispy.

The wings I made last night with charcoal baskets were really good, but I wouldn't call them crispy.

How/why does the Vortex produce crispier wings than just plain Ol' charcoal baskets?
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: bigdaddyII on July 31, 2016, 05:17:53 AM
I am going to keep checking this thread because I am curious myself. All these gadgets are cool and all that, but priced way out of the range I'm willing to pay for something that does what can likely be replicated with what I already have.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Geezer on July 31, 2016, 06:11:34 AM
It's just like a Hadron Collider, only smaller.



I don't know the hows or whys, I just know it works.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: cumminfourya on July 31, 2016, 06:11:54 AM
I do not have one. But I think cause of the shape of the vortex is how it works. The heat is forced out of the top of it and hits the dome lid and rolls the heat down the insides of the kettle. Really cooking the wings to a crispy finish. That is just my understanding of how it works. But I could very well be wrong.


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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: varekai on July 31, 2016, 07:53:07 AM
Quote from: cumminfourya on July 31, 2016, 06:11:54 AM
I do not have one. But I think cause of the shape of the vortex is how it works. The heat is forced out of the top of it and hits the dome lid and rolls the heat down the insides of the kettle. Really cooking the wings to a crispy finish. That is just my understanding of how it works. But I could very well be wrong.


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I believe this to be a fair assessment, it concentrates the heat and makes an almost convection type environment.. I have one, used it twice, can't remember what I cooked, OH YEA, one cook was a beer can chicken in the middle of it with coals around it, THAT turned out good,  but I like gadgets and like trying new ways of cooking.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: captjoe06 on July 31, 2016, 07:54:47 AM
I used a STOK charcoal basket that was shaped similarly to a vortex and used it in the same fashion.  It worked great but produced so much heat that the bottom charcoal grate sagged a bit after a bunch of uses.  Since then I've pretty much only used the charcoal baskets pushed together and placed the wings along the outside perimeter and have had just as good results.

One of the keys with the wings is to make sure you pat them dry with a paper towel before you cook them and also to get your coals blazing before you put the chicken on.  I do not see the need to purchase the Vortex if you have the charcoal baskets.  Here's the visuals with and without-

Wings with STOK charcoal basket inverted-
https://northeastbbq.com/2016/06/20/chicken-wings-using-the-stokgrills-charcoal-basket-like-a-vortex/ (https://northeastbbq.com/2016/06/20/chicken-wings-using-the-stokgrills-charcoal-basket-like-a-vortex/)


(https://northeastbbqdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/2016-03-20-19-05-00.jpg?w=936)

Wings with charcoal baskets-
https://northeastbbq.com/2016/05/17/chicken-wings-on-the-webergrills-kettle-captjoelobster/ (https://northeastbbq.com/2016/05/17/chicken-wings-on-the-webergrills-kettle-captjoelobster/)


(https://northeastbbqdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/20160517_114405_hdr-01.jpeg?w=978)
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: jaynik on July 31, 2016, 03:40:41 PM
The vortex works as described above.  I own one.  Concentrates the heat and uses the shape of the kettle to its advantage.  You can cook great wings with it, but you can cook great wings without it.  You've got to try it to see if you like it, but that's a $50 gamble.  I gambled and am happy.

I do find that i'm able to get a better cook out of floured wings with the vortex than without.  With the vortex, the floured wings are like fried chicken.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: THUNDERDOME on August 01, 2016, 08:11:11 AM
Short answer: Very High Indirect Heat. Wings have a high skin to meat ratio so getting the skin crispy is as important for flavor (for wings) more-so than just stopping when I.T. gets to 165, in my opinion.

Here is some I did last night on my 26.75". Seasoned wings w/ Owens BBQ Buffalo Wing Rub/Mad HUnky Meats Hot Wang/Texas Chrome BBQ Rub. No flour. No oil. No need for sauce, and crispy like a fried wing. Also posted the pic of the Vortex after the cook when I shut it down so you can see how much charcoal is left that can be used again for the next cook w/ a top-off of more charcoal.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/23rmgl4.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/w97ddk.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/23j6dg1.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/20h991y.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2z9mzb5.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/dblj5l.jpg)



Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Bustin Butt on August 01, 2016, 08:40:14 AM
Those wings are purty!


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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: haeffb on August 01, 2016, 09:48:34 AM
Nice looking wings @THUNDERDOME. What is your cook temp with the Vortex? I was running about 425 on the dome thermo for my cook and the wings were at 160 to 180 way before the skin would have crisped.


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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: THUNDERDOME on August 01, 2016, 09:50:45 AM
Thanks @haeffb I'm guessing I was cooking around 450. The dome temp was much higher than that w/ a full Vortex (Medium) w/ Kingsford Blue Bag. All coals are completely set before I put wings on.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Ted_IL on August 01, 2016, 11:05:48 AM
I want some!  Man, those wings look perfect to me.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Texmech on August 02, 2016, 04:11:47 AM
Use mine all the time for wings and always have great results. I also am still experimenting with searing meats like steak in the beginning or using the reverse searing method. Still can't decide on that, but I would have one just for my wings.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: DarrenC on August 02, 2016, 04:28:19 AM
I reproduced this technique on Saturday using a cut down coffee can.  No need for gadgetry whatsoever.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: austin87 on August 02, 2016, 04:37:14 AM
Do you know if a coffee can is safe at those temps? I'd be concerned it would leach out nasties. The vortex I stainless steel.

I have 2 (small and medium) and given a couple as gifts. I'm a big fan.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: DarrenC on August 02, 2016, 05:05:48 AM
Quote from: austin87 on August 02, 2016, 04:37:14 AM
Do you know if a coffee can is safe at those temps? I'd be concerned it would leach out nasties.

A more pertinent question would be do you know that it's not?
Title: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: haeffb on August 02, 2016, 07:02:26 AM
Made some wings again last night, again using the baskets. A little higher temp and a lot longer cook and the skins were extra crispy. The wings were not as juicy, though, with IT over 200 degrees.

Need to find a good compromise.


(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160802/9b94462e1999acdc7531f03b0f65f4fc_thumb.jpg)


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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: shadowjig on August 03, 2016, 11:02:30 AM
It think the theory is that the high heat is concentrated and the dome reflects the heat to bake the wings.  With chicken I'm always looking for very high heat.  When using the Vortex it gets hot 450-550*.  The vortex is hanfy because it deflects that direct heat from hitting the wings around the edge and bakes them with the convection heat.  I would think you'd be able to get the same result without it.   But I always use it for chicken (wings, drums/thighs).  I did a cook for the in laws with chicken drums,  potatoes, and parchment wrapped scallops all on the gril with the Vortex and it came out great.   Without it,  it would have been difficult to manage everything on the grill.

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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: effinUker on August 03, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
I grabbed a stainless steel wine chiller or flower pot or something at a thrift store for a buck and cut the bottom off it. I think it's about the size of a small vortex, but it works great on my 22.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: DarrenC on August 04, 2016, 04:25:18 AM
@effinUker

Any tips for cutting SS cleanly?
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: effinUker on August 04, 2016, 04:50:31 AM
Quote from: DarrenC on August 04, 2016, 04:25:18 AM
@effinUker

Any tips for cutting SS cleanly?

I used a hacksaw. Filed the edges smooth(ish)
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Big Dawg on August 05, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
Quote from: shadowjig on August 03, 2016, 11:02:30 AM
It think the theory is that the high heat is concentrated and the dome reflects the heat to bake the wings.  With chicken I'm always looking for very high heat.  When using the Vortex it gets hot 450-550*.  The vortex is hanfy because it deflects that direct heat from hitting the wings around the edge and bakes them with the convection heat.  I would think you'd be able to get the same result without it.   But I always use it for chicken (wings, drums/thighs).  I did a cook for the in laws with chicken drums,  potatoes, and parchment wrapped scallops all on the gril with the Vortex and it came out great.   Without it,  it would have been difficult to manage everything on the grill.

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I think that there's also some infrared action coming up from the bottom as the cone gets super hot and radiates that heat out as well.

Do you NEED one to cook good wings, of course not!  But, with the cost less than a half-gallon of my favorite scotch, it's a nice, addition to your Weber arsenal.





BD
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: shadowjig on August 05, 2016, 12:27:30 PM
Quote from: Big Dawg on August 05, 2016, 12:14:15 PM
Quote from: shadowjig on August 03, 2016, 11:02:30 AM
It think the theory is that the high heat is concentrated and the dome reflects the heat to bake the wings.  With chicken I'm always looking for very high heat.  When using the Vortex it gets hot 450-550*.  The vortex is hanfy because it deflects that direct heat from hitting the wings around the edge and bakes them with the convection heat.  I would think you'd be able to get the same result without it.   But I always use it for chicken (wings, drums/thighs).  I did a cook for the in laws with chicken drums,  potatoes, and parchment wrapped scallops all on the gril with the Vortex and it came out great.   Without it,  it would have been difficult to manage everything on the grill.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

I think that there's also some infrared action coming up from the bottom as the cone gets super hot and radiates that heat out as well.

Do you NEED one to cook good wings, of course not!  But, with the cost less than a half-gallon of my favorite scotch, it's a nice, addition to your Weber arsenal.





BD
It doesnt guarantee crispy skin.  You don't NEED it.   I just fell like it's easier to get the grill extremely hot due to the inverse funnel and it contains the charcoal.  I'm still trying to chase the best crispy skin.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Wahoo95 on August 05, 2016, 06:10:30 PM
Also great for more than wings. You can also turn out some great salmon placed around that vortex.  Same with pork tendeloin, thick cut pork chops and steaks or anything else you'd like to reverse sear.

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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Garvinque on August 07, 2016, 02:42:34 PM
I have a mini for my Jumbo Joe!
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: Wahoo95 on August 07, 2016, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Garvinque on August 07, 2016, 02:42:34 PM
I have a mini for my Jumbo Joe!
I just ordered a mini for my Jumbo Joe

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Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: MikeRocksTheRed on August 08, 2016, 04:09:58 PM
Makes one hell of a seared tuna steak if you like your Tuna seared good on the outside and raw on the inside! 
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: jd on August 08, 2016, 04:16:32 PM
I have the medium vortex but I got it mainly for stir fry, really puts the heat to the bottom of the wok, works great
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: MikeRocksTheRed on August 09, 2016, 08:21:33 AM
Quote from: jd on August 08, 2016, 04:16:32 PM
I have the medium vortex but I got it mainly for stir fry, really puts the heat to the bottom of the wok, works great

Which wok are you using?

This one?  Which by the way is on sale for $14.95 plus $10 shipping on Amazon right now.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41p%2B2D61BmL.jpg)

I thought I've tried to see if this wok would work with the medium vortex and the vortex was a little too tall, but I'm not 100% sure I have actually tried it.
Title: Re: Explain to me Vortex wings
Post by: jd on August 09, 2016, 09:40:56 AM
@MikeRocksTheRed  I use a 16"powwok I got from the wok shop, sure works great