New question (no pics at all)

[zavod44]

Troy on one had some of what your saying is true, but the reality is that WE have driven this sky high.  Before the WKC I could get pretty much anything I wanted with no issue...now it's a real dog fight to find stuff.  Also You illustrating exactly my thoughts that if there's something someone wants then all bets are off, so why hold to any etiquette at any time.  You yourself said as much in regards to profit, if you make $5 or $500 profit, profit is profit.  So why then do we pick and choose when to be nice?  Only if it's really something I"m not excited about?  In regards to releasing the hounds, There is a certain member here that took a lot of heat this summer for doing what your suggesting on collectible things, who held off on this very grill and may have lost it because he was chastised and warned against this kind of thing.  So he left it to the locals, did what he was told.  If he was released to do as he wants, it would be his.....So that's the whole release the hounds....if it's game on for things we really want then are all bets off?  If it's something he really wants, just like you would want a Westerner are all those motherbitches his to gather, if he really want's them??

[Troy]

Troy on one had some of what your saying is true, but the reality is that WE have driven this sky high.  Before the WKC I could get pretty much anything I wanted with no issue...now it's a real dog fight to find stuff.  Also You illustrating exactly my thoughts that if there's something someone wants then all bets are off, so why hold to any etiquette at any time.  You yourself said as much in regards to profit, if you make $5 or $500 profit, profit is profit.  So why then do we pick and choose when to be nice?  Only if it's really something I"m not excited about?  In regards to releasing the hounds, There is a certain member here that took a lot of heat this summer for doing what your suggesting on collectible things, who held off on this very grill and may have lost it because he was chastised and warned against this kind of thing.  So he left it to the locals, did what he was told.  If he was released to do as he wants, it would be his.....So that's the whole release the hounds....if it's game on for things we really want then are all bets off?  If it's something he really wants, just like you would want a Westerner are all those motherbitches his to gather, if he really want's them??

You have clearly put a lot of thought into this and are reacting based on logic rather than emotion. Thank you for that.

I understand your reasoning and questioning the reason for etiquette if there's always a chance that it won't be honored. I have thoughts for a response - but I don't have the wisdom or communication skills to put it into words
It's like the philosophy of good vs evil where it's not really a battle, but a give and take. One can't exist without the other.

The WKC needs the etiquette. The network of friendships. The friendly trades. The sacrifices of grails, parts, and profits. We, as humans, need it too. None of us are here JUST to grow our stables (at least I hope not)
Society is complicated. Even lurkers are "part of the community." Hell, I lurked at TVWBB for YEARS. Literally, 5 or 6 YEARS before joining.

Like everything in life, it's not black or white. You can go 5 mph over the speed limit everyday and still call the guy doing 110 in a 55 an F'in maniac. It doesn't boil down to a critical line based on a decided rule (speed limit) - it's based on human judgement, and every human has different judgement.

I wouldn't step on anyone's toes for any grill that I've ever seen. It would literally take a red ranch, a westerner, or an original for me to let the dogs out (WOO.. WOO WOO WOO).
I can't expect EVERYONE to have the same judgement. And I can't expect everyone to NOT judge me when I DO let the dogs out.

[MaxBobcat]

Hey Max don't forget that new in the box GA you scored.  That seller stuck to the old CL code that he accepted the very first offer he got.  I would bet if he hadn't you wouldn't have got that bad boy for $20.  You would have had the hounds released on you.  You would have been bummed if someone offered $75 on that when you could have had it for $20....

Hmm.  If in my original post in this thread, you thought that I was advocating people making higher offers after a sale price has been determined between a seller and buyer, than that is a mistake and I apologize for not being clearer.

I thought this thread was more about the etiquette of going after kettles in other states or regions than your own.  I prefer to see all grail kettles stay in the WKC, but whether or not all of us want to continue the "my turf" etiquette, recent history has shown that some do not.  That's why I feel it's better to just let the free market determine prices and what kettle goes where.  We can all continue to support each other with spare parts, trading grills, being agents, etc.  That's what I love about the WKC. 

[Jeff]

Thank you Brian for starting this thread.  It is MUCH needed.

I have a lot to say, some of which has already been touched upon, some of it hasn't.  I'll try and word it best as possible.  I've talked to some of you privately about this as well.

As Brian mentioned, as early as even 1.5 to 2 years ago, finding unusual and different kettles wasn't tough.   I think this site has grown A LOT, and opened the eyes to MANY people that "hey, there are Webers out there other than the common black grill?!"  "I'd love one of those on my patio, that would look so cool!"  Look at how fast we are growing as a site...don't forget the unregistered people too...the LURKERS!  LOL   There are a TON of them.  All these people are interested too...but have chose not to join.  They are sniping grills too.  Look at the White Whale that just listed.  It was out there for a week!  Then as soon as it posts here, the seller gets bombarded and has stars in their eyes.  This site has certainly influenced the price of rare and colored Webers...FOR SURE.  Can we really stop it?  Probably not.  Can we try and control it?  Maybe...BUT, when it comes to true Grails that pop up, I don't think so.  As Troy mentioned, it comes down to supply and demand.   There are only so many Grails left out there (one less as of yesterday), and a fast growing community that WANT WANT WANT these grills.  I think its impossible for any etiquette to be put in place once one of these grills shows up on Clist, Ebay, or any other public site.  And as far as site camaraderie, sure that's all nice in theory, but far from realistic when the TRUE GRAIL pops up.  I don't care what some say, what they preach, what they would like to see...ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN, and we just saw another example of it with the White Whale and the attention it got.  As Brian said, its gonna happen and the hounds will be released. 

Here's another question for you all, so if you found yourself a TRUE GRAIL...in really nice shape would you cook on it?  I've read a few people say its a grill, they are meant to cook on, or "I don't care for lookers", well...if you had other cooker grills and found a sweet Grail...would you use it?  Or would you admire it and just use your everyday cookers?  Would you really NEED to cook on the Grail?  I cook on my Sequoia, and its in NICE condition, but I also have other more common colored grills I cook on too.

Now, this may be best for another thread, but my Wooddale will eventually be for sale.  There are those that would consider this a GRAIL for themselves and I know a lot of people would like this grill.  I spoke to a handful of you privately about this as well.  I'd would like to see it go to a club member, but of course I will have a minimum in mind (less than I know it would fetch on Ebay) I would accept.  I'd like to avoid Ebay for now.  I took a little bit of grief from a member for listing it there.  They had the right intentions, but not realistic ones.  The speckled offset handle Smokey isn't your run of the mill grill you see everyday now.
Now...what is the best method for me to do this with the club?  I saw the thread Lawrence post for the "Grail Fella" and maybe that's an idea.  I want to offer this grill eventually, but how do I avoid :
1) coming across as greedy
2) disappointed members that would really like this grill, but don't get it (its only one grill!) 

Ultimately I envision it happening as PMs coming to me. Naturally someone will bid more than someone else.  How is this ultimately any different that Ebay?  It will no doubt come down to money, and I will say it again, I don't want to come across as greedy.  Is there another solution?  This is a Wooddale in amazing condition, not a common red grill from the 90's.  Input is always welcome.

[tattooedant]

Jeff, you bring up some really great points. I agree that as people score these grails, the issue of what to do with them comes up. The grill I scored yesterday is absolutely beautiful and I've never seen a grill this old in such good shape. I've slept on it (not the grill) and I'm still not sure what I want to do with it. I have mixed feelings about cooking on it. Plus there are folks here that would like it as well. Maybe for me, I would want another member to have it, but the big question is how to do that fairly without it becoming a swinging dick contest. It was awesome to see your speckled joe go for what it did, and it does come with some benefits. All of you that have rare grills, your collection just increased in value, but all of us that are looking for one, that search became a little more difficult and expensive. That's what happens with collecting anything!

I was thinking about what would be the most fair for the WKC members if we wanted to keep it in the family. What if the seller of the grill determined their asking price beforehand and then had a lottery system from interested buyers to pull from? For example, let's say I wanted to unload the white whale. With the price of the grill, gas and tolls, I laid out about $250. To make it worth my while, I'd probably want at least $300. What if I put it out there that anyone interested in paying $300 for the grill, let me know, I will put their name in a hat and draw it on a certain date? The winner gets to purchase the grill. Of course determining the price is more difficult because you're trying to anticipate a market for an item that could potentially explode on ebay. This way may be an alternative to letting the dogs out.

[Jeff]

with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it.  Do you just stick to your original price you put forth?  Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not.  Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it?  Not likely, but you never know.   I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine.  Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color.  There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it!  Its a super cool grill.  Do you have space for it?  Lots of things to think about!     You're in a nice position either way.

[G$]

1) Well Brian, IMO, you got your answer.
2) Can I get the list of all official graills?
3) Yes, I would cook on them, at least a few times, (unless doing so would immediately damage them).

[glrasmussen]

So many valid points on this thread. I think we have created our own monster. The market place for these collectable grills IMO is peaking. Some will be out many dollars for a prized trophy. It is a hobby we all share at this point. Personally, there is know grill that I would pay over $100, just me. A hobby is not an investment. Does the White Whale cook any better than an MT or OTG? Most of mine finds are $25 finds. It can't even be shipped to another member for that, now the investment has doubled to another party. I would hope a member would PM me or an Advisor for a head up on a local add that may have been missed.

Example: How many are holding the bag on collectable cards? Pok-E-man? It was a fad and many lost $'s I think we will
see this happen on Weber Grills at some point. Its not like investing in stocks, at least if you suffer a loss, it is a tax deduction...

[Duke]

Thanks Jeff,

I keep hearing that ultimately it comes down to money and that's reality. I don't believe that it has to or that it should. I would start with the members that you know have been looking for a Wood Dale by PMing them or just asking people to PM you. Have a number in mind that you think would be a fair for it based on what you paid and the time spent on it. My guess is that you would be around $100 right now. I understand that it's a wood dale and they are rare, but keeping in mind they are usually picked up for well under $100. I spoke with a guy the other day that picked up a light blue one for $25. The White Whale just went for $225, but it was technically a colored one and originally $25. That leaves $200 being a more than fair asking price, and remember the buyer will likely have to pay for shipping at another $50. You made a great profit, helped a person to get a desirable grill and kept it here. Keep in mind you can still do trades and partial trades as well.

Now the reality is that you will probably get upwards of $300 on Ebay, but who knows where it will wind up? It might or might not be here with the bretheren. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I made a large profit on ebay from one of our members. I would be forced to give some back, but that's me. I don't consider dealing in rare grills as a member of a rare grill site to be a place to look for real profits. Just flip regular run of the mill grills on CL and nobody will care. The markets great in your area.

I know you have a very large rare collection and that there is a possibility that one day you may be approached by a serious buyer with a large amount of money and a purpose like a restaurant or museum. I think you would be cheered on for a deal like that. For example, Golly just made a great deal with Weber Oz.

Also keep in mind that you made it clear to me that you felt I paid too much for my NIB Red SJ a few years back, that leads me to believe that you would have to feel the black Speckled SJ also went for too much. The profit was large, no doubt and the condition wasn't good. Even considering  it's a few years later it would never catch up to the red that I recently resold to a member for about the same as the black speckled. I know it made for great advertising, but I think the creative minds here could think of other ways to raise interest.

No, it isn't reality that it has to come down to the deepest pockets. I'm a bigger fan of helping make it possible for a great Dad to get it, or a person that lives in a remote area where they never find these grills.

Anyways, that's more likely that way I go about things and see them.

[tattooedant]

Example: How many are holding the bag on collectable cards? Pok-E-man? It was a fad and many lost $'s I think we will
see this happen on Weber Grills at some point. Its not like investing in stocks, at least if you suffer a loss, it is a tax deduction...

This is so true. Hopefully Webers are more like baseball cards, than pok-e-mon cards or beabie babies. That brings up another thought. What if we turned the name list that Max started into a sort of pricing catalog? Similar to the way baseball cards are? That way there can be some consensus over pricing and it'll keep things reasonable.

[Duke]

with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it.  Do you just stick to your original price you put forth?  Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not.  Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it?  Not likely, but you never know.   I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine.  Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color.  There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it!  Its a super cool grill.  Do you have space for it?  Lots of things to think about!     You're in a nice position either way.

Yes, you stick to your original price. I have also had grills where I felt it was worth more, but couldn't get it from the people I wanted to see get it and they really wanted it. Sometime the shipping hurts the deal, so I have to compromise even more to see them have it. It might mean taking payments or lowering the price because you know it would be sweet to see in their collection. I love helping build other GFA's collections.

[Jeff]

No Shaun,
I never said you paid too much for that red Smokey on Ebay.   I just didn't want to pay what you were asking for it when you approached me on it. I think you made a good deal by asking for the seller to do a BIN and end the auction.  I think that Red Smokey would have sold for far more than you paid for it.

[pbe gummi bear]

2) Can I get the list of all official graills?
3) Yes, I would cook on them, at least a few times, (unless doing so would immediately damage them).

G$ some grails we don't even know exist! That's what makes it fun. I totally agree with you on #3, except if it's a NIB. We all know what a weber cooks like so no use is messing up a nib grail kettle. My threshold for that is pretty high I would like to think though. I had no qualms cooking on my 14" wsm.

with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it.  Do you just stick to your original price you put forth?  Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not.  Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it?  Not likely, but you never know.   I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine.  Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color.  There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it!  Its a super cool grill.  Do you have space for it?  Lots of things to think about!     You're in a nice position either way.

Yes, if you decide to lottery your grill for a WKC price then you are probably undervaluing it for personal reasons. That's cool too. We shouldn't judge each other for going through other channels like eBay. Nor should we judge those who are willing to spend $$ on a desirable grill.

[Duke]

Thanks Jeff, but what do you think about my plan for selling hard to come by grills? Does it sound fair? reasonable?

By the way, I have been wondering if you bought that light blue Imperial that was up for one hour on ebay using the same method I used to get the red sj?

[Jeff]

Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider.  Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks.  It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already.  It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this.  This grill is in super condition except the ash pan as most of you know.  Its a survivor grill for sure.