New question (no pics at all)

[zavod44]

So I have a question.....And this is not directed at anyone.  Over the summer we had the big discussion about people offering more money and and going after rare grills in someones back yard.  I had the philosophy and the thought that we should let local agents and locals have first crack at grills on CL.  This started a firestorm that implicated a few people and caused hard feelings.  I had the thought that among the WKC members we would hold to an esprit de corps and try to be civil and not offer stupid money when we don't have to....However this seems to not be the case....When a "White Whale"  or a "grail" pops up it seems that all that WKC love and Esprit De Corps goes out the window and it's game on.  I spoke to a member who spoke to the seller, and the seller again was tipped off that this WAS indeed collectible, Tons of stupid money was thrown at it....Soooooooo, my question here is does anyone really care about my thoughts of a WKC utopia or is this just a pipe dream?  I get the feeling that it's just game on, and some people can't control themselves and they just have to have something.  Is it mann gegen mann?  Is it dog eat dog?  I don't care really what the answer is, I just need to know the rules we are playing by?  Because some of the heavy hitters with the thick wallets seem to be holding back when it comes to these long distance deals,  so if it's game on them I'm gonna let those players know that the leashes are off and they can go for it?  Soooo what say the collective?  Is it just game on? 

[Troy]

[Thin Blue Smoke]

Can you give more specifics? Are you only asking about dollar amount of a grill or a general collecting etiquette?  What are the rules, other than common courtesy, are we talking about?

Do you have specific knowledge that there is a huge breakdown in the esprit de corps?

[Duke]

So I have a question.....And this is not directed at anyone.  Over the summer we had the big discussion about people offering more money and and going after rare grills in someones back yard.  I had the philosophy and the thought that we should let local agents and locals have first crack at grills on CL.  This started a firestorm that implicated a few people and caused hard feelings.  I had the thought that among the WKC members we would hold to an esprit de corps and try to be civil and not offer stupid money when we don't have to....However this seems to not be the case....When a "White Whale"  or a "grail" pops up it seems that all that WKC love and Esprit De Corps goes out the window and it's game on.  I spoke to a member who spoke to the seller, and the seller again was tipped off that this WAS indeed collectible, Tons of stupid money was thrown at it....Soooooooo, my question here is does anyone really care about my thoughts of a WKC utopia or is this just a pipe dream?  I get the feeling that it's just game on, and some people can't control themselves and they just have to have something.  Is it mann gegen mann?  Is it dog eat dog?  I don't care really what the answer is, I just need to know the rules we are playing by?  Because some of the heavy hitters with the thick wallets seem to be holding back when it comes to these long distance deals,  so if it's game on them I'm gonna let those players know that the leashes are off and they can go for it?  Soooo what say the collective?  Is it just game on?

Thanks Brian, I have tried to follow that exact plan. When it comes to buying I have stayed on my turf and when it comes to selling I have stayed away from ebay because I wanted to keep prices reasonable for fellow members and keep the grills here.

[zavod44]

I could site many examples, but the seller today, said he was offered 200+ and was informed that this was a very valuable grill.  I cannot prove it but I'm willing to bet that is was someone here that told him it was valuable.  All this took place within a half hour after it was posted here on this very site.   The seller told a member here that he had multiple offers, well above the $25 asking price....The seller than told the member here that since it was valuable he had to get the highest price.  So this is a definate breakdown in the esprit de corps.  As I said I don't really care, I just need to know if we should unleash the hounds.....

[landgraftj]

100% agree with you Brian. I refuse to screw folks for a kettle. I don't care what kind it is or how old it is. I'd rather have some integrity at the end of the day.

[Weber MD]

I could site many examples, but the seller today, said he was offered 200+ and was informed that this was a very valuable grill.  I cannot prove it but I'm willing to bet that is was someone here that told him it was valuable.  All this took place within a half hour after it was posted here on this very site.   The seller told a member here that he had multiple offers, well above the $25 asking price....The seller than told the member here that since it was valuable he had to get the highest price.  So this is a definate breakdown in the esprit de corps.  As I said I don't really care, I just need to know if we should unleash the hounds.....

Brian,

While I might agree with you that people may have been tipped to this grill from this site, why do you think it was registered members who contacted the seller offering more money and informing the seller about the value of the grill? There is no bar for entry for the Trading Post section and if you look at who's on the site at ANY time you'll see more guests than registered members.  There were 427 views of that post as I write this and I doubt all were registered members.

I like the idea of an esprit de corps, code of conduct, or whatever you want to call it but if the registered users are the only ones who honor it, but these guests don't, what will it accomplish? I understand why the administrators would want to keep the site open to guests to include the Trading Post section, but you have to realize there are some tradeoffs you'll have to accept with that decision.

[With a K]

I hope I am not considered in the group of "game-ons", as a result of my Sequoia procurement. I try to follow protocol notifying of available locally or elsewhere. This one(in Rochester) seemed stagnant, I asked my wife to sic her dad in Buffalo on it, and he even bargained a lower price! That & coincidental free shipping made it a no-brainer to me. If I was out of bounds, somebody needs to speak up on it.

[Thin Blue Smoke]

It sounds like you have already decided there is a breakdown and are just wanting someone to give you the OK. If you are asking for personal responses from every member what there intentions are, I will give you mine. NO, I don't believe in bidding up a kettle. As I have said before, they are fun because I can use them and they are affordable. I don't plan on making artwork or a shrine out of them. So, there is my position again if that is what you are looking for. I don't think that we can hold everyone to that standard. Just like I don't think, as an example, I could hold you to a standard that you should only have X amount of kettles and should share the wealth. (which I know you do)

You are never going to get a consensus of ethical behavior in a large group like this. If you choose to "unleash the hounds" I believe you are relegating the WKC to just another hobby forum as I think there is a good element of overriding courtesy here. There are enough people here that lead by example to have hope that others will see the benefits of the community standards and follow. If somebody does not want to be one of those leaders than you can't force them.

I have observed enough here to see outstanding things happen just because of the WKC connections. I have also seen the WKC members use each other and the forum to manipulate deals. So, to use an old saying, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Everyone has their own standard about courtesy/esprit de corps when it comes to collecting kettles and I actually think it should go beyond price negotiations on grails. Once the WKC becomes a tool just for increasing ones personal kettle collection it becomes useless to me. There is more here to offer and it only stands to be torn apart by focusing on the trade section.

So, I hope we continue to set a high standard for community behavior in a hobby and can get away from bringing this issue up every time some unknown person decides to disregard the community of the WKC. It is gonna happen and we know it but you have to make a personal choice if you want to go that route or not.

[zavod44]

No I don't want anyone to take this as personal, I'm just curious what everyone thinks.  This is not an indictment of anyone.  This is just a curiosity....please don't take this as a personal attack.  I would also remind everyone the winner of this grill is a member, and did pay top dollar.  So I wouldn't say it was a lurker.    I would also say that there was really no one around this grill so it was fair game, it wasn't snagged out of anyone's "backyard" so to speak...

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[zavod44]

I like saying release the hounds....I also like Mann gegen Mann 

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[zavod44]

I would like to get a consensus on mann gegen mann...  come on nobody...no ramstein fans?

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[With a K]

I think behavior reflects attitude. Nuf said.

[LightningBoldtz]

People are people and ultimately we are a selfish lot.  More of us here don't know each other personally so there is no real accountability.  IE, if you screw someone over that you work with, you have to go in everyday and look that person in the face knowing they are disappointed in you.  If someone screws another over on the WKC, whatever, right?  None of you REALLY know me.

That said, personally, I don't give a crap about collectible grills.  I got one last summer that I had a great time restoring but ultimately, I love cooking on a Kettle with a OT system as opposed to those 3 wheels.  I ended up selling mine to Kendoll (maybe someday it will make it to OZ).  With regards to what I do with grills, I buy them low, clean them up and resell them.  If there is ever a collectible in the Detroit area, I will be your agent, I love doing it I love to help others get what they want and are unable to acquire in their area.
Collectibles are not to profitable on the open CL market so I would rather be an agent than flip.

[AZ_MIKEY]

I will say this I spoke with the seller and also made my intentions clear on this white whale I asked if someone local was going after it and if not if someone local would deal as a agent. No responses. I had people pm me that if I got it and decided to part with it to keep them in mind. I even pm the original poster of the add to see if he was close enough to act as an agent. It came down to me having to secure an agent through a friend that had family within 10 mins of the white whale. My plan was to have agent pay for grill seller being none the wiser.  As it turned out the agent was busy so onto that hope full agents best friend and he says yes he can do it. But would I contact seller so that is when Imake contact with seller and get story of the price is no longer $25 but higher and how much am i able to give for it. I ask him what is he looking for he says north of $200 cause he has an offer from Texas for that much plus shipping. Has also talked with 2 people from Massachusetts and someone is on their way from long island area I back out  at this point but probe some for some answers.  He says they asked questions about thumb screws and the vent also said they mentioned people collecting these grills and this one was a rare one indeed.  So somebody IMO could not read my post I posted on the trading post regrading this grill which is how they found the grill also and didn't have the courtesy to post that they were on it also. So that's what I understand happened but everyone has their own version of the story and how it happened and then there is the version that really happened that know one knows completely.if two people are involved in an event  they tell separate stories and yet there is the third real story and yet another fourth story an analyst would give you of that event and on and on it goes. For what it is worth that white whale was for sale on cl at $25 for at least a week.