Frustration...just need to vent

[TeddyC]

I'm using my new Mastertouch grill, grilling Pernil, which is a Puerto Rican roast pork (pork shoulder).  I always cook one in the oven.  I'll season it and let it marinate for 4 days and then cook at 350* for approx 4 hours.  The smell and taste is out of this world.

So I decided to try it on my new Mastertouch.  The meat is currently in the grill and it's been over 2 hours.  Here's my frustration.
I'm using the indirect method. I started with approx 25 lit briquette on each side and, every hours I've been adding 8 briquettes.  The problem is recovery time.  All was going well until I lifted the lid to add the first bunch of new briquettes.  I lost so much heat.  And, it takes a long time to get back up to the proper temperature.    So, once it gets up to temperature, I ahve to get ready to add more briquettes (8 on each side). 

It's still in the grill so I don't know if there will be anything unusual due to the fluctuations in heat.  I got nervous and called Weber.  The rep. was cool.  She said that she was nervous the first time that she grilled a turkey due to constantly opening the lid to add more charcoal.

For long cooks, I rely on my WSM.  Using the Minion Method I can get 14 hours at 225 - 250* range.  Also, I've smoked turkey breasts at 350+* with no problems, for several hours.  I'm just annoyed with constantly adding charcoal into my Mastertouch.  And, due to adding new charcoal every hour, I can't get the temperature up to 350*.  It ranges a bit above 300*

Weber says no but is there a method that I can use.  To indirectly cook my meat at 350*, without opening the dam lid so often?  At this point, since I can't keep the temp up for a consistent time, I'm ready to put the dam roast in the oven.

Thanks!

[jcnaz]

I think that if I were setting up for a long(4hr) high heat(350) cook I would use a single larger hot zone with a full chimney of coals. I would periodically add 12-15 LIT coals as needed to maintain temps. I don't believe that I would have to add as often as with the coals on both sides. and by adding lit coals the temp swing is less.
Just a thought...

[CharliefromLI]

Not sure if it's too late but when you reload as the above poster said ad lit coals and instead of taking lid completely off slide off to the side so that the meat is still partially covered by the lid And so is the coal on the other side and then do the same thing on the other side. This should help maintain some of the dome temperature near the meat. Make sure all of your events are wide open so that the cold is getting the best possible airflow based on your heat requirement. 

Not sure what the weather in your area is like today but if it's cold try and see if you can block the wind as that can be a temperature killer too

[1buckie]

A FAT snake....meaning 3 on the bottom, then two, then one & wood chunks if you want to add those can easily get you 350........

another thought is: are you adding UN-lit coals....or lit?

To maintain an existing temp, with minimal drop in temp, I'll add lit....

If it's running at or close to desired temp & the need is to extend the length of time on the cook, then adding UN-lit is a best move..........

I'll see if I can find a testing I got from a fellow on BBQ Bretheren that shows a very quick recoup time for a kettle.....meaning, the less time the lid is open, the quicker it comes back to temp......

Starting with a larger load of lit coal like JC & Charlie are saying is another good way to go about it.....even at a higher temp than needed to account for the cold meat mass at the start......

Attitude helps too....
Like one of my Canadian buddies once said: "I will prevail, no pig will ever get the better of me !!!"

[TeddyC]

You guys are hilarious.
I'm pissed so I'm finishing the cook inside the house in my oven.
The charcoal that I was adding, hourly  to the kettle were unlit. 
And, yes it is a pretty cold day today.  Currently, it's 39* outside.  Could that be a reason why I'm not getting a high temp.
Geez, I did a chicken a week or so ago and had no problem keeping the temp at 400*.

I'm thinking the reason for my failure is: (1) it's really cold outside; and (ii) opening the dam lid every hour to add more charcoal.  1buckie, I'll try to find a picture of the Fat snake that you described. 

Maybe I'm frustrated but I should have bought the regular gold kettle instead of this new Mastertouch.  When I called Weber, they said to use the charcoal holders and then replinish with 8 unlit briquettes, each side every hour and I'll stay at my desired temp.  Well, seems those charcoal holders ain't worth a damn.

Sorry guys, I'm a newbie to the kettle world.  Using this is a bit frustrating.  I really love my low & slow with my WSM.  Grrrrrrrrrr.......

[1buckie]

I'm trying to remember who had a good pic of a thick snake?
I've seen several setups like that here.......

"You guys are hilarious."

To wit......I once cooked a 22# turkey @350 in a hurricane....I'm not kidding.....POURING rain, blowing sideways @ 50 MPH......some rain was expected, but I was committed to the cook & did it anyway......didn't take any longer than normal, used about 15% more fuel.......play the ball where it lies........

[BBcue-Z]

Love Pernil!!!

I agree with everyone, use one large pile of coals on one side and it can go as long as three hours depending on the outside temp and wind. You'll need to add lit coals during cooking to maintain or increase the temp.
Give it another chance, and you'll love it.

[TeddyC]

Love Pernil!!!

I agree with everyone, use one large pile of coals on one side and it can go as long as three hours depending on the outside temp and wind. You'll need to add lit coals during cooking to maintain or increase the temp.
Give it another chance, and you'll love it.

Now that's just pretty. 
My pernil is now in the oven and my house smells so good.  But, so that I fully grasp this concept, please let me take baby steps and let me know if I'm right or not:
1 - Instead of using the Charcoal holders, just dump 1 full chimmney of lit coals onto the side of the kettle;
2 - Put my grate on and put the meat on the unlit side. 
3 - This method should keep consistant for 3 hours.  But if/when the temp drops, I need to add "LIT" charcoals to the pile. 
Here's my question, how do I add the new charcoals, without getting a flare up or ashes onto my food.  There's a slight opening on the side of the grate but is that wide enough to slide lit charcoals through OR will I have to pull up the entire grate and meat?

I should have posed this question before starting.   Heck, Sunday, I'm going to do a brisket flat but I'll do it in good ol' reliable WSM which I've already mastered. lol

[BBcue-Z]

I agree with steps 1-3, although I can't guarantee the 3-hour burn, it all depends on the external factors and type of charcoal. But you should get a long burn.
As far as adding lit coals, if you don't have a hinged grate like this

You can remove the grate if you're worried about ashes, or just use BBQ tongs or a rake like this and drop few coals at a time

And please don't give up on the Weber Kettle, I've used so many different grills and I always come back to the Kettle, there is nothing like it!!

[1buckie]

There's a part of the deal......do you have a flip-up grate?
Those are good (or grate) for adding coals.....that's what that design is for....

A whole chimney is gonna get a pretty high temp, but that may be just right for what you want to do here.....

A guess might be:

Full chimney, off to one side, START with the bottom vents 1/2 open ( or completely open, then shut to 1/2 after 1/2 hour) TOP vent ALL open......

Cap it & wait 20~25 minutes.....then put on the meat......

The idea here is to heat the bell of the kettle, get temp stabilized, be just a little higher than your run temp & not have to fight the temp down......the shutting to 1/2 open means you won't  get a runaway burn right off the bat & can adjust either way by a little to dial where you want........
You know all this stuff already from your WSM, it's just shaped differently......

Assuming you don't have a flip grate, do this:



Do it all the time to add bean pans....



....or, use an old spare pair of tongs to tweeze coals in, but that can take awhile......

If dumping from a chimney, just shake VERY easy a few at a time & you won't get a huge cloud of ash & spatter.....


There's another thread going currently about wind & kettles.....
What you see where the bean pan is sitting can be a 350 degree cook, in the wind & heat.....
I've set a couple butts on two kettles in summer, & it was windy later on while I was asleep, cooked hot 'n' fast without my permission.....

[1buckie]

Here's ribs running pretty hot (325~350) with the flip grate propped open for adding coals / wood quickly....





Straight up is 350...



It's not quite a clear picture, but that's about the amount of coals we're talking about....gets a good length of time, maybe the 3 hours....quick add of coals keeps it running smoothly....

Here's maybe a better view.....some unlit, lit poured on top....





Maybe a little more than a standard Weber chimney....



525 degrees.....



Wow...really?  says Molly Malone.....



.....for 45+ minutes........if vents pinched down, might could go a couple hours @ 325~350

[TeddyC]

Guys, I do have the hinge grate for my Mastertouch.  My concern is, the grate seems to fit unlit charcoal easy.  I would be nervous pouring lit charcoal through that small grate. 

But I do like the photos that 1buckie posted.  In a way, it looks like a Minion method.  So, am I right about this: line the inner walls with unlit charcoal.  And then add, a chimney of charcoal to the beginning of the pile.  The lit end will ignite the unlit and then spread on.  Will that method keep at about 350* consistently. 

Also, BBcue-Z what method did you use for your Pernil.  And, on a Roti, how do you check doneness?  I always cook in my oven for 4 -5 hours but my goal was to keep my Maverick plugged into the meat until 185* IT.

Thanks all.

[1buckie]

Guys, I do have the hinge grate for my Mastertouch.  My concern is, the grate seems to fit unlit charcoal easy.  I would be nervous pouring lit charcoal through that small grate. 

But I do like the photos that 1buckie posted.  In a way, it looks like a Minion method.  So, am I right about this: line the inner walls with unlit charcoal.  And then add, a chimney of charcoal to the beginning of the pile.  The lit end will ignite the unlit and then spread on.  Will that method keep at about 350* consistently. 

Also, BBcue-Z what method did you use for your Pernil.  And, on a Roti, how do you check doneness?  I always cook in my oven for 4 -5 hours but my goal was to keep my Maverick plugged into the meat until 185* IT.

Thanks all.

"The lit end will ignite the unlit and then spread on.  Will that method keep at about 350* consistently. "

Yes, but it will be a little bit of trial & error in your neck of the woods to see exactly how much.......

We've had some recent conversation about baskets & having them be a little tough to keep temp UP sometimes.....best to just bank off to one side without the restricted area of the basket....

"I would be nervous pouring lit charcoal through that small grate. "

Again:

"If dumping from a chimney, just shake VERY easy a few at a time & you won't get a huge cloud of ash & spatter....."

[BBcue-Z]

I always use instant-read thermometer on rotisserie food. I do a quick check every hour or so to see what the internal temp is hovering around. This also serves another purpose, when I insert the probe into the meat, I'm also checking for tenderness. With cuts like these, the skewer method is the best judge of doneness once you past the 160 mark. If you insert a skewer into the meat and it meets very little resistance, then you know you're getting close to that ultimate doneness

[TeddyC]

Guys, I finished my pernil in the oven.  Something weird happened.  I had a smoke ring on the meat. lol.

Okay, I'm still learning to use a Kettle. It's not the same science as a WSM but I'm sure I'll get it all over time.  I'm really appreciative of this site and the knowledge from you guys.

What is a bit frustrating is, the information that I received from Weber is not really exact.  The information that you guys shared is more logical.  Going forward, for heavy meats like the roast which requires 350* for several hours, I'll remove the charcoal holders and will just dump a chimney to the side of the kettle.   For cooks like a chicken which is done in under 2 hours, I'll use the charcoal holders for indirect cooking. 

This is good information, I'm going to copy this into my cooking guide book.