This is worth a watch. An update video from baby back maniac in regards to a conversation he had with the president of weber on his red kettle and summit issues.
https://youtu.be/lRSCiSCuE-g (https://youtu.be/lRSCiSCuE-g)
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That was a calculated risk by Weber that will pay off real, real big.....glad to see how they handled it....
Quote from: 1buckie on December 12, 2017, 10:20:22 AM
That was a calculated risk by Weber that will pay off real, real big.....glad to see how they handled it....
Yeah, shows they are paying attention to where there audience is. I wonder if they will reach out to any other youtubers.
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Great to know
Personally I have mixed feelings about this. Although it's nice to finally see SOME sort of positive response from Weber, it only came after over a month of problems and bad publicity all over this and other bbq forums. In addition to that I'd be curious to know how many "regular joes" received calls from Weber corporate with apologies and reassurances.
So far the only two positive stories I have seen on the LE Grill came from 1) a high profile Weber collector, and 2) a high profile BBQ blogger... hopefully more start to pour in now!
Also not sure who is misinformed (CS or the President) but Weber 1-800 just swore up and down that there is NO new adjustable hinge available for the Summit Charcoal Grill and that anything I heard otherwise was incorrect or rumors? lol
Quote from: SixZeroFour on December 12, 2017, 11:07:46 AM
Also not sure who is misinformed (CS or the President) but Weber 1-800 just swore up and down that there is NO new adjustable hinge available for the Summit Charcoal Grill and that anything I heard otherwise was incorrect or rumors? lol
I hope better experiences with CS will come out now as well. It shouldn't take this much to get it solved but at least they are doing something. That is interesting. Anyone else try calling weber about the adjustable hinge for the summit?
@LightningBoldtz @AnotherPintPlease Sent from my iPhone using Weber Kettle Club mobile app (https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=91018)
Ironically, I just received an email response to a claim I made at the end of November requesting in writing, that they tell me that it is within what they consider "normal" for my leg sockets to have no porcelain and already have started to rust. Below is the response I received:
Thank you for your email.
We offer a very generous 10 year warranty against rust or burn through on the bowl. We have the photos and your concerns logged in our system for reference if anything should occur.
Please see your owner's manual for further information on the warranty.
I love to see that story, but it is meaningless if they are not going to do what they say. Had I not ordered this thing and paid shipping (yep, BIG mistake, I would just send it back and call it a day but I am not paying to ship it back).
While I appreciate them doing this "limited edition", if they cant do it right, they should not do it at all!
I am off my soapbox now. I just cant believe how horrible they are handling this whole situation!
This is great to hear! So many people were so quick to bash Weber over the problems with these Red LE kettles. I knew Weber would make it right even if it took a little while. It took returning one via Amazon to get a good one. I was happy I was able to resolve through Amazon since I had two other kettles I needed to call Weber about. They already shipped me a replacement copper lid for my NIB copper that was dented. I have a 2015 26er that has never been level. It wasn't a problem where I had it at my last place due to a big dip in my patio, but here in Denver it was a problem again. It took them shipping me a leg kit that perfectly matched my existing legs for them to (today) decide to ship me a new bowl. It would have been nice if they would have looked at the dozen pictures with a measuring tape clearly visible in all of the pictures to identify the correct fix immediately, but in the end they are fixing it correctly and I'm a happy camper. Plus now I will have an extra bowl and leg kit, so maybe I'll come up with some cool project for that.
The most serious issue regarding service is what he describes early in the video (also mentioned in his earlier video about the Summit Charcoal's leak):
Namely, that Customer Service should never use anecdotal experiences with whatever product example they might have laying around, as the standard of how the product should perform. Doesn't matter if the product is new, or old.
Attn: Weber CS, when confronted with a curve ball:
1) Confirm the behavior with Product Planners/Marketing.
2) Confirm the behavior with Engineering.
3) There is no Step 3.
I like Justin quite a bit. His genuine honesty comes through in his videos crystal clear. He's "one of us." But Justin should NOT have received a free grill. Not as a customer, not as a Grilling Media Personality, not as a reviewer.
Professional reviewers can be defined as anyone who makes money or benefits from giving an opinion. This includes ad revenue/perks from YouTube videos or temporary employment opportunities from alignments with manufacturers such as Adrenaline Barbecue, as Justin has done.
That said, it is longstanding practice in some industries to extend to reviewers a roughly 50% off price for products purchased. And FYI, possession of super-"long term" demo models are not ethical.
Justin's heart is in the right place but I am disappointed he accepted the kettle. And from the CEO! You cannot remain insulated from bias, when gifted.
P.S. I hope Weber reconsiders the leg sockets paint targets for all kettles. They do rust through, and faster than anything else.
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on December 12, 2017, 04:53:08 PM
Justin's heart is in the right place but I am disappointed he accepted the kettle. And from the CEO! You cannot remain insulated from bias, when gifted.
I disagree about this bias. I hear about it often, and I certainly see cases of it.... but blanketing isn't accurate. Some people are capable of remaining objective.
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Sending a new grill is appropriate in view of the complaints made by BBM and the resulting dialog with the president who was generous with his time and his product to pacify a customer. BBM is best at entertaining us with his videos but Weber has gone extra miles to help him, more so than other companies might, so maybe BBM should not be too hard on them. I mean any smoke that is coming out the side of his summit will only come out the top vent anyway. Weber got stung on this LE and needs realize how important quality is to their loyal customer base.
Quote from: Troy on December 12, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on December 12, 2017, 04:53:08 PM
Justin's heart is in the right place but I am disappointed he accepted the kettle. And from the CEO! You cannot remain insulated from bias, when gifted.
I disagree about this bias. I hear about it often, and I certainly see cases of it.... but blanketing isn't accurate. Some people are capable of remaining objective.
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Yeah. I could completely maintain my objectivequity and objecquosity and objectivity if people would send me free stuff.
Here. Right now. A challenge. Send me free stuff and I will remain objective.
All joking aside - reviewers get all sorts of free goods. They usually remain truthful and objective. Most viewers and readers can tell who is a shill and who is not.
Justin was a fan before this phone conversation, I have had many discussions with him on facebook, he is a genuine dude.
I don't think this move is going to make him "shill" for weber as he has all kinds of cookers in his backyard, I am sure a few are freebies. I know that Kamado Joe is a freebie, he points out the good and bad.
Am I jealous that he gets free stuff and I don't, well he has spent the time and effort outside his normal day to make entertaining videos and I have not so you reap what you sow and he is reaping free stuff.
Does a small wisp of smoke on a summit cause any problem? From his past videos, it sounds like he really likes the summit and didn't mention that it caused any problems. In other words, who gives a shit if you have a tiny wisp of smoke coming out of your grill where it's not suppose to? I get that it's expensive, but I would go crazy making phone calls and worrying to death about every tiny thing that isn't perfect on everything I own.
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Got to be the gasket not sealing. Is it not thick enough? If Weber's OEM gasket isn't doing the job maybe consider the alternatives. In the case of the bare metal in the leg sockets do these things rust through from the outside? Weber has long had an issue with bare metal rusting under the handle welds and under grate straps. Weber considers these grills consumable. They even used the word as key to date code new kettles (don't know how LE kettles got their code). The guaranty is for rust-through. Maybe if a welded handle or leg socket fell of due to rusting. If you are a collector and want to Keep your kettles nice you probably don't leave wet ashes in them or store them in the weather. What if a chunk of porcelain falls off? Maybe they would cover that? Oh, and I left a small area unsealed when I put lava lock on my performer lid just so I could see that Wisp of smoke. It is how I know My top vent is set right.
and I guess I get one more round with Weber Customer Support. I put together my Copper Premium yesterday with the new non-dented lid, and didn't notice some missing porcelain where the front bowl handle meets the bowl. Kind of a bummer to get it all together then notice it, but I know Weber will make it right. It's not like it's my only grill so it's really not a big deal as long as weber makes it right.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/901820e0502aa34e07a84d1bd3d146f8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/6aa1d428291108a3c996e3d41df4f6bc.jpg)
Ouch
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/92b0c07f5bf4291ab7772fb16de27e1a.jpg)
It was this site and facebook that caused him to take a second look at his kettle. His first thoughts were all positive and then because of the members here complaining about issues he took a closer look and did not like what he saw and returned it.
It would be nice like Matt said if the everyday Joes were treated a little better and not just the people at the top. But if we don't like it then I guess we should start making videos and put in the work.
I did get a Weber temperature gauge in the mail. So I guess my CS rep felt bad for me and sent one out. I'm sure his hands were tied on what he could do on the kettle.
On an unrelated topic, this video should have been less than 5 minutes long. I'm not sure why a lot of the bbq youtubers make such long videos. If I click on a video and it's over 10 minutes, I won't bother watching.
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Quote from: Jon on December 12, 2017, 10:31:00 PM...Most viewers and readers can tell who is a shill and who is not.
And so everyone else is just what, a sucker?
The fact that some reviewers could remain unbiased is pretty good evidence that gifts make some biased. That is why you don't accept them, so that
there's no question hanging in the air and that viewers don't have to guess or waste time watching and figuring it out ... assuming they can.
As I said, I respect Justin but it's also true he got special treatment here. That alone should clue anyone is about what's "fair" and "just."
Gifts are not "income" where the product of work is integrity.
I like Justin's videos too and find his channel entertaining so no disrespect here. On the other hand, becoming a Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center owner has changed my opinion on some of his feedback on this grill.
Curious - is anyone else experiencing smoke leakage with the Summit or only Justin? After seeing his video and purchasing my SCGC, I made sure to get one in a factory fresh box versus assembled and carefully then assemble it myself paying attention to the seal. I was an ASE Master tech many years ago so i tend to assemble everything that i can anyway.
I am in the zero leak club and this is what i noticed.... First of all, my hinge had slotted bolt holes and allowed for a small amount of lateral movement. I made sure that the lid was nice and centered over the bowl before locking everything down. My SCGC is brand new so i don't know if this is the same, original hinge design or if it is possible that i somehow got the updated hinge that Justin speaks of via a production run change. Either way, i did get some adjustment, made to center it when going together and have no leaks. I feel like if i had to make any more adjustments that i could have just gotten out the Dremmel or pneumatic die grinder and slotted the hinge holes a little more. Should not have to do that, though.
The other thing i noticed about the gasket is that it seems to be identical to the type of gasket (complete with the same push clips) that is on the GE electric oven in the kitchen. Another thing i would experiment with if i had a stubborn leak would be perhaps be to cut a small slit into the gasket and insert a thin piece of gasket inside of it to bulk it up for a better seal. I don't remember if Justin said that the push pins are falling out of the gasket but I feel like you could bend those a tad to make them fit more tightly if you had to.
I do get a tiny leak when i am using pit and meat probes inside. The leak is where i run the cables through but goes away when they are gone. What i am thinking to do here is to instead run the cables around the back of the SC and hinge and route the cable across the bowl at the point where the two ends of the seal come together and poke back into the lid. There is a tiny notch there in the seal.
It would be great to better understand why Justin's is leaking at the front like that and where the misalignment is. It would also be great to get a look at the updated hinge if/when it materializes and what additional adjustment it provides.
It is actually in his Kadado Joe model update video that he talks about a new problem that i don't think he mentioned in the Summit 1 year follow up. He unfairly (IMHO) lumps the SC in the same group as other Kamados that do exhibit the issue that he talks about. The summit's temperature setting won't actually change when you open the lid. Yes the whole door flips down but just flip it back up. It's not like the setting changed. Coincidentally, the same "problem with other kamado grills" is also highlighted in the Kamado Joe marketing video.
Justin also took issue with the wheels on the SC/SGGC. I suppose that's personal opinion because i don't see a problem with them at all. They do what they are supposed to do and i can't imagine what i would replace them with that might not result in a downgrade in function in order to get better looks. I can push the SCGC accross my lawn and the wheels seem to be made of a dual compound where the rim itself is a durable plastic and the tire is a hard rubber compound. I think that pneumatic tires would be a downgrade for most folks because that would make the grill too shaky (IMHO) and require higher maintenance. I saw the nice wheels on those Rec Tec pellet smokers and those just look like wheels off of one of my kids' scooters. The smooth operation of ball bearings might be nice to have.
As far as his comments on the leg mounts, I am a long time kettle fan so those don't bother me. If you look carefully at a snake, you can still see on some species where the legs used to be back when they still had legs.
For me (and I am in software Technical Marketing), Justin didn't really qualify the "it's a 1.0 product" statement very well beyond taking issue with the wheels and leg mounts. I know what a "1.0" product is in terms of computer hardware and software as well as new car models. I would agree that it is a ".0" product but seeing as how it is still a kettle and we are talking about Weber here this is probably more like a "Kettle 5.0" product or something and coming an experienced company.
The only issue i have had with my SCGC is that the thermostat had condensation in it since the first cook and it did not go away. It was promptly replaced and i have had zero issues since. Weber customer service has gone above and beyond with all of my other Weber products.
I think Weber knew they have to do something to get word out on how they are handling all of the problems with this Red LE. Putting out a statement on their own social media would probably turn off a lot of people who aren't the Weber enthusiasts that we are and are maybe looking at purchasing their first kettle. I think Justin was a good choice for getting the message out, and while I would surely appreciate a free grill, Weber Support has been amazing the last week and a half to resolve some issues I am having with other grills. Justin's video has been posted here and on multiple Kettlehead facebook groups, so the message Weber wanted us to know has made it to all of us who have been waiting for some sort of official response from Weber. I think the overall message from Weber in Justin's video is that Weber is going to make it right, and from what I've seen so far, that is the absolute truth.
Quote from: Troy on December 12, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
I disagree about this bias. I hear about it often, and I certainly see cases of it.... but blanketing isn't accurate. Some people are capable of remaining objective.
We'll have to agree to disagree Troy. Presuming the proper disclosures are used in whatever form the review is made public, (blogs, forums, twitter, facebook etc. see the FTC guidance in the link below) the perception of the author's objectivity among readers (or viewers, or listeners) will naturally be biased. That is, they will think about the review differently than if the author purchased, or rented, or sampled the product in isolation of the "gift" factor. The authors (recipients of the gift) themselves may feel free to be totally honest and write or film what they believe is an unbiased review, but the fact they have to disclaim the "gift" as a notice to their audience changes the tenor of the review itself. It has to. It doesn't matter if they like it or not, or if the review is complimentary or a scathing tear down. Audiences, knowing that the author was gifted the product to review, adds a layer of doubt, or uncertainty, or questions of credibility, or outright disbelief that the review captures a truly meaningful analysis of the product in question.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#disclose (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#disclose)
Marty
Quote from: 56MPG on December 13, 2017, 09:36:10 AM
Quote from: Troy on December 12, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
I disagree about this bias. I hear about it often, and I certainly see cases of it.... but blanketing isn't accurate. Some people are capable of remaining objective.
We'll have to agree to disagree Troy. Presuming the proper disclosures are used in whatever form the review is made public, (blogs, forums, twitter, facebook etc. see the FTC guidance in the link below) the perception of the author's objectivity among readers (or viewers, or listeners) will naturally be biased. That is, they will think about the review differently than if the author purchased, or rented, or sampled the product in isolation of the "gift" factor. The authors (recipients of the gift) themselves may feel free to be totally honest and write or film what they believe is an unbiased review, but the fact they have to disclaim the "gift" as a notice to their audience changes the tenor of the review itself. It has to. It doesn't matter if they like it or not, or if the review is complimentary or a scathing tear down. Audiences, knowing that the author was gifted the product to review, adds a layer of doubt, or uncertainty, or questions of credibility, or outright disbelief that the review captures a truly meaningful analysis of the product in question.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#disclose (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#disclose)
Marty
That's the beauty of it all right, we can all have different opinions and perspectives and still get along like one big happy family.
The best tool in any reviewer's arsenal is the ability to resist unnecessary outside influence.
Quote from: MikeRocksTheRed on December 13, 2017, 06:47:03 AM
and I guess I get one more round with Weber Customer Support. I put together my Copper Premium yesterday with the new non-dented lid, and didn't notice some missing porcelain where the front bowl handle meets the bowl. Kind of a bummer to get it all together then notice it, but I know Weber will make it right. It's not like it's my only grill so it's really not a big deal as long as weber makes it right.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/901820e0502aa34e07a84d1bd3d146f8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/6aa1d428291108a3c996e3d41df4f6bc.jpg)
Ouch
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New bowl is on its way. John at Weber Support has been absolutely awesome!
I just got off the phone with Weber Customer Service and it was clear the person I was dealing with was completely clueless. Long story short, I ordered replacement part #7444 from Amazon. It arrived, but missing a piece - the small "H" washer. I figured rather than returning everything back to Amazon and ordering another one, I'd call Weber and see if they could send me the missing piece. After 20 minutes going round and round with the clueless CS person, emailing here pictures, trying to explain to her that I did NOT buy a new grill that was missing a part, but it was replacement part that was missing a piece, she finally stopped trying to figure out what model grill I had and told me that they don't have the separate pieces to send out - I needed to buy a whole new kit. I could tell from the first 10 seconds of the call that the CS person was not familiar with Weber products.
Anyhow, I just returned and reordered from Amazon. No real hassle with Amazon returns, but the customer service department could probably use some more training.
I officially took back my home Depot LE Red the other day. It was a mixture of finding a brand new in the box red 1991 and the missing leg socket paint (bare metal, not black). My 1991 sockets are 98% covered in red and the other part in black. My LE had silver.. not a hint of anything. I am a sucker for a nice collectors/ limited edition thing so maybe in a couple months in the spring I will reevaluate a purchase. In my area the grills are all put up in topstock and not displayed at all.
Quote from: RemoGaggi on December 13, 2017, 02:07:41 PM
I just got off the phone with Weber Customer Service and it was clear the person I was dealing with was completely clueless. Long story short, I ordered replacement part #7444 from Amazon. It arrived, but missing a piece - the small "H" washer. I figured rather than returning everything back to Amazon and ordering another one, I'd call Weber and see if they could send me the missing piece. After 20 minutes going round and round with the clueless CS person, emailing here pictures, trying to explain to her that I did NOT buy a new grill that was missing a part, but it was replacement part that was missing a piece, she finally stopped trying to figure out what model grill I had and told me that they don't have the separate pieces to send out - I needed to buy a whole new kit. I could tell from the first 10 seconds of the call that the CS person was not familiar with Weber products.
Anyhow, I just returned and reordered from Amazon. No real hassle with Amazon returns, but the customer service department could probably use some more training.
Fwiw, I'm pretty sure that the CSR was correct. While it's a single identifiable piece, it's not a single part to Weber. It only comes as part of the kit. Sima thing would probably happen if you tried to get a single fin replaced as it doesn't look Iike it has an individual part number either.
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Fwiw, I'm pretty sure that the CSR was correct. While it's a single identifiable piece, it's not a single part to Weber. It only comes as part of the kit. Sima thing would probably happen if you tried to get a single fin replaced as it doesn't look Iike it has an individual part number either.
My frustration wasn't that the single piece doesn't have a part number. My frustration was that she wouldn't listen to me that I was not calling about a grill that was missing a piece, that it was a piece from a replacement part. I kept telling her this and she kept asking me what grill I had. My point is that it should not have taken such a long time for her to know that some individual parts are not available or at least be able to look up part #7444 immediately and be able to tell that that the "H" washer is not available separately. I was actually trying to save Weber (and Amazon) some money by saving them both the trouble and expense, albeit minor, of return shipping costs and ultimately the return from Amazon to Weber.
Quote from: RemoGaggi on December 13, 2017, 09:23:44 PM
... I kept telling her this and she kept asking me what grill I had. ...
They are robots, not allowed to use any judgement. Gotta follow the script.
It's the same sort of short-sightedness that requires Walmart and Target to ID an obviously elderly man for a beer purchase. "Because somebody will make a mistake some day and sell it to a minor." .... without any hint of wonder about how such a staffer would come to be employed in the first place.
It's a form of not having to do the hard work of training.