I was reading AF's Meat Smoking Manifesto this weekend. In one part of the "Smoker" section, he referred to Webers as "flimsy," and recommended the Big Green Egg instead.
Blashphemer!
Agreed, but just to play devils advocate, if I was used to cooking on several 1000 gallon propane tank based stick burners all day every day, I might have a different view of cooking on anything less substantial. For my needs though, nothing beats a Weber. Maybe he just needs to be educated 8)
Is he talking about the WSM ? Because I see nothing flimsy about those .
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AF is from TX where steel tanks, drums, and big diameter pipes can be had for cheap/free so I understand where he is coming from. A BGE seals well and is even more foolproof than a Weber for smoking. Even though the Weber is a "flimsy" thin metal walled cooker it's a high quality product that comes at an amazing price point. The construction, design, and customer service more than make up for the thin walls. Weber fits my needs well as Terry said.
One of my dreams is to make a large vertical or offset smoker. Weight and $$$ be damned. :)
I have a kamado and prefer my Kettles for low and slow....I get better product and find it easier to get clean smoke.
Quote from: Uncle JJ on June 15, 2015, 09:29:34 AM
I was reading AF's Meat Smoking Manifesto this weekend. In one part of the "Smoker" section, he referred to Webers as "flimsy," and recommended the Big Green Egg instead.
Blashphemer!
Lol. Thought the same thing when I read it.
The amount of wood you go through with a stock burner alone make you think twice about using one. The weber does the job cheaper and more efficiently.
Quote from: Qreps on June 15, 2015, 07:14:41 PM
The amount of wood you go through with a stock burner alone make you think twice about using one. The weber does the job cheaper and more efficiently.
It may use more wood than a kettle, but you're not cooking near the same quantity of meat on a kettle as you are on an offset unless you're talking a cheapy Chargriller. Different tools for different tasks. Besides, variety is the spice of life.
Not worried about who likes thenthe kettle or not. It has been nothing but awesome for me and bang for the dollar and over quality along with longevity are pretty much unmatched.
I wonder if he's ever actually used one. ..
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I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
Quote from: Winz on June 15, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
lol
I have a big offset, and I love it. Cooking with wood-only is fun, and it makes superior bbq. But to call Webers flimsy is just wrong - we've got guys here cooking on Webers made 40+ years ago!!
Now don't shoot the messenger, but I can see what he's saying in context.
How often do you hear about a kettle or WSM that's "out of round"? The metal on a kettle is noticibly thinner than your typical decent offset smoker. It is also has much thinner walls than the kamado smokers. I don't knock him for that observation, but what he should have mentioned was that the Weber is also porcelain enameled which allows it to retail heat far better than your standard flimsy metal Big Box retail store grill which isn't coated in any way.
I have seen some trailer mounted stick burner offsets that I would love to have, but alas it is not to be.
I'm gonna get flamed but here it is.
I've had some bbq here in Texas that made me have what could only be described as a God moment. After reading AFs book I know what my cooks have been missing. I really want a gator pit. I'd be willing to get rid of most of my webers to get one. Not all...
as long as she's not anti weber.
Quote from: GregS on June 16, 2015, 05:35:03 PM
as long as she's not anti weber.
Exactly. Frankly, I'm anti-Webber too. Except when it turns up CL scores. Then I'm all for it.
Quote from: 1911Ron on June 16, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
I have seen some trailer mounted stick burner offsets that I would love to have, but alas it is not to be.
I have a custom built offset smoker on order with Shirley Fabrication in Tuscaloosa, AL at the moment and I've been going back and forth about whether or not it should be a trailer mounted one or a cart mounted one. Check out their Facebook page for some pics and vids of their smokers. Awesome looking cookers. If you talk to them about pricing you might be pleasantly surprised. This isn't costing anywhere near the cost of something like a Lang. They are booking builds into January 2016 now, but mine is slated for October. Really looking forward to having another type of smoker if for no other reason than 'just cuz'.
Dang, Shirley Fab has amazing cookers. I'd really love to test drive a 48-60" ft model rf made out of a tank. I'm excited for you! What are the specs on yours?
Quote from: Uncle JJ on June 15, 2015, 09:29:34 AM
I was reading AF's Meat Smoking Manifesto this weekend. In one part of the "Smoker" section, he referred to Webers as "flimsy," and recommended the Big Green Egg instead.
Blashphemer!
BGE?
This article says he is a PK guy.
http://www.pkgrills.com/TheGrillBlog/pitmaster-aaron-franklin-of-franklin-barbecue-uses-pk-as-his-goto-grill/
C'mon, Aaron. Which is it? ;D
Quote from: pbe gummi bear on June 16, 2015, 09:00:50 PM
Dang, Shirley Fab has amazing cookers. I'd really love to test drive a 48-60" ft model rf made out of a tank. I'm excited for you! What are the specs on yours?
24x60" Straightback cabinet model with a three shelf warmer. Sausage hangers, optional damper from firebox to warmer.
I'm still trying to decide if I want to put this on a trailer or build it on a cart. I don't necessarily plan to travel with the smoker alot, but the trailer units just look so cool and it would be nice to have the option to haul it somewhere, which of course I could do with a cart model on a trailer.
I've owned a Shirley for about 2 years now. Paul and Tyler are incredibly talented, and their service is second to none.
@AZRaptor - Get your smoker on a trailer. I didn't, and I regret it. You'll be surprised how many times you'll want to take it to another location to cook for friends. Plus, you may want to do a competition! I'm taking mine back to Paul to have it mounted - would've been cheaper to have done it up front (and I'll have to be without my smoker for a while, which sucks).
Build out a quickie UDS so you won't miss it too bad
& while the PK has a "vintage" look it is nowhere close to the beauty that is a colorful kettle (or set of for the cost)
Quote from: MINIgrillin on June 16, 2015, 05:13:50 PM
I'm gonna get flamed but here it is.
I've had some bbq here in Texas that made me have what could only be described as a God moment. After reading AFs book I know what my cooks have been missing. I really want a gator pit. I'd be willing to get rid of most of my webers to get one. Not all...
equipment is a very very small small element of the final product, if its an element at all.
I bet franklin produced shitty Q on a weber and now he's holding a grudge.
Quote from: Troy on June 17, 2015, 02:17:54 PM
Quote from: MINIgrillin on June 16, 2015, 05:13:50 PM
I'm gonna get flamed but here it is.
I've had some bbq here in Texas that made me have what could only be described as a God moment. After reading AFs book I know what my cooks have been missing. I really want a gator pit. I'd be willing to get rid of most of my webers to get one. Not all...
equipment is a very very small small element of the final product, if its an element at all.
I bet franklin produced shitty Q on a weber and now he's holding a grudge.
I don't know. I the book he details multiple occasions when starting out where he made lousy Q on an offset, and he still uses them. His back story never really mentioned him cooking on anything other than offsets if I remember correctly.
Quote from: AZRaptor on June 17, 2015, 07:24:40 PMI don't know. I the book he details multiple occasions when starting out where he made lousy Q on an offset, and he still uses them. His back story never really mentioned him cooking on anything other than offsets if I remember correctly.
He does mention somewhere in there that he's cooked on several different types of pits across the country, but I still think he really just doesn't have much if any experience with Webers.
For example, in the wood chapter he mentions how you just can't get enough smoke from only charcoal, without even bringing up the fact that you can use wood chunks (or chips) in smokers that cook with charcoal. To me, that seems to indicate that he really hasn't used any charcoal smoker very much.
Either way, he obviously knows a great deal about the tools that he does use, and still wrote a great book :)
I chased competition bbq for a while, had a really nice stick burner on a trailer with all the bells and whistles. And it cooked nice.
it had major drawbacks, boy did it use fuel and you had to cook a lot or it was not worth it
so I downsized to a non trailer unit and it cooked great, used less fuel and I had better temp control overall
My success in comp cooking was kinda medium, in smaller cookoffs I did real great, in the larger ones there seems to be a huge tendency for the big teams to win. Not that I feel they did any better. Maybe I am biased there.
Anyway, no matter what was going on, we always had a few weber's going on cooking to give stuff away to fans and for our food, we had a blast showing off what we could cook on the kettles, many times I think the stuff was better than the stuff off the stick burners.
things have changed a bit in the comp circuit, it seems that computerized pellet burners and self feeding coal burners are becoming a rage and they remove the temp control problems from the pitmaster and put it into a computer that is sampling constantly and adjusting to keep things to a tight controlled computer program. Hard to compete against doing it freestyle
I also got told I had diabetes and some of the food I was cooking is really bad for me. So I sold out.
I took me about a month to figure out that grilling is great for diabetics, the method drains the fats from the meat. and you know, all those vegis you eat are great grilled, not only that but a lot of the sides I cook for my guest I do not have to eat, I just make a bunch of baked beans and I make some regular beans for myself.
And so it goes, I love to grill, I do it all the time, probably 3 times a week or more, and I have never in my 57 years on this planet found a grilling platform as versatile as the Weber. I can BBQ and it is easy to control the heat, I grill, I do a lot of beer can chicken with the best success of any form of grill I have ever used. My 3/2/1 ribs are the talk of the town, my briskets are great ( if I had a 26 incher I think they would be perfect)
I only own one other grill, a 36 inch ranch kettle by another manufacturer that is used for big get togethers and it is used to grill burgers, dogs, steaks, and the perfect santa maria style tritip. besides that I use my smokey joe silver, my maters touch kettle and my recently found green metal bowl handle 3 vent mid 70s 22 inch which cooks great. (40 years and still cooking is not flimsy)
So go tell those guys who think you can only bbq or grill on some super expensive stick burner to go pound sand, a good Grillfella knows you can cook great BBq on just about anything if you just apply the right methods to the equipment, and the Weber is the most successfully selling back yard grill for a reason, it has proven over a half century of being one of the best grills out there. It is rugged enough that many of us have 40 and 50 year old grills we use on a regular basis.
Being good is all about method and keeping records till you get it right, not about the most expensive cooking unit out there. Sure a big thick unit will work best in comercial places and last a long time, but do you need a unit in the back yard that can cook for 100 people everynight.
@Jammato What a GREAT statement !!!!
Esp. this:
"(40 years and still cooking is not flimsy)"
Just goes to show that even smart folks sometimes say bloody stupid things.
Quote from: MrHoss on June 18, 2015, 01:54:08 PM
Just goes to show that even smart folks sometimes say bloody stupid things.
I'd think more along the lines of "uninformed"......instead of stupid !!!!!
Quote from: Winz on June 15, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
Quote of the week! Lol
Quote from: Winz on June 15, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
I am just
really bummed that I bought the IPAD version of his book instead of the hardcopy. Oh well...
Winz
Quote from: Winz on June 18, 2015, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Winz on June 15, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
I am just really bummed that I bought the IPAD version of his book instead of the hardcopy. Oh well...
Winz
Bonus points if you burn the ipad.
Great post,
@Jammato! Having fun with your Weber and the versatility of the kettle are two of the most important things you mentioned in your post. Taste and fun are both important to me while bbq'ing.
Quote from: Winz on June 18, 2015, 02:19:21 PM
Quote from: Winz on June 15, 2015, 08:16:23 PM
I am currently using my Weber Performer and some hot lump to burn my Aaron Franklin book.
Winz
I am just really bummed that I bought the IPAD version of his book instead of the hardcopy. Oh well...
Winz
Had my best laugh of the day with that post!
Having visited a few of the ceramic kamado grill makers and talking with a few reps...one rep said it best....these are all good grills...not one is bad..the questions is service and what brand you want to have on your deck...
personally i want them all on my pavers...except bge...
i did recently pickup a ceramic kamado ..ill be curious on how she fires up a cook
Quote from: toolhead on June 18, 2015, 05:00:51 PM
Having visited a few of the ceramic kamado grill makers and talking with a few reps...one rep said it best....these are all good grills...not one is bad..the questions is service and what brand you want to have on your deck...
personally i want them all on my pavers...except bge...
i did recently pickup a ceramic kamado ..ill be curious on how she fires up a cook
Curious, why no BGE and which kamado did you get? How'd you like it compared to a kettle? Been debating about getting either a BGE or a Kamado Joe.
Quote from: AZRaptor on June 16, 2015, 01:57:59 PM
Now don't shoot the messenger, but I can see what he's saying in context.
How often do you hear about a kettle or WSM that's "out of round"? The metal on a kettle is noticibly thinner than your typical decent offset smoker. It is also has much thinner walls than the kamado smokers. I don't knock him for that observation, but what he should have mentioned was that the Weber is also porcelain enameled which allows it to retail heat far better than your standard flimsy metal Big Box retail store grill which isn't coated in any way.
I'm definitely not shooting the messenger, but you're comparing apples and oranges to a degree.
I get what he's saying, but he's giving perspective with the luxury of being able to use whatever equipment he likes, and comparing the equipment to the commercial rigs he uses on a daily basis. There's a big difference between a commercial rig and even a BGE.
Most of the time when you see or hear about a kettle being out of round, its because a kettle has been mistreated. It was bought and used by your average homeowner for $100 (or less). Left outside in the elements year round, used to cook burgers and dogs until it rusted out and was thrown away. What percentage of kettles have actually been owned and cared for like members here would? Or a professional like Aaron Franklin would care for his commercial equip? And for that matter--how many kettles out there spent a lifetime of burger N dog duty. Never doing anything other than grilling. No indirect cooking, smoking, rotisseries, etc.
When you're talking about the equipment, it really does depend on the budget involved. Average Joe who leaves his grill outside year round is rarely going to drop $1000 on a gas grill, let alone a BGE. So if he's going smoker, the uninformed/uneducated buyers will usually buy the cheap flimsy COS (cheap offset smokers) that the Big Box stores sell. Those things rust out even faster left out in the elements, and we all know they're notoriously bad cookers without a lot of help.
Most people really aren't aware that a kettle is a perfectly adequate smoker/grill/bbq for the vast majority of average joes out there. When I first started learning how to smoke/bbq years ago, I didn't know either. I went out and bought the ECB to learn how to smoke, and I already owned a Weber Kettle at the time.
So yeah, the Weber may seem flimsy to some, but I can understand that, given how many beaten up old kettles are out there. But as we all know, they're head and shoulders above any of their competitors in the same price range for performance and flexibility.
http://www.pbs.org/food/features/bbq-with-franklin-season-1-episode-4-the-pits/
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In episode 8 competition, there are a couple of cameo appearances of kettles.
Quote from: Idahawk on August 11, 2015, 12:02:38 PM
http://www.pbs.org/food/features/bbq-with-franklin-season-1-episode-4-the-pits/
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If you watch this episode, he shows his disdain for the waterpan of the WSM.
He's just a stickburning type of guy and thats his pit of choice.
They certainly aren't for everyone. I had a Bandera and NB Silver Smoker with mods and I'm just not that into babysitting. My teammates have trailer offsets (Klose, Peoria & a Lang) and I cooked with Sugar's BBQ (BBQ Pitmasters) with her Lang and R&O, and while I feel confident working around them, I'm just not that attracted to them. As close as I get is using my Backwoods.
I once attended a BBQ Class hosted by David Klose.
There were a couple of folks that were getting their Klose pits fine tuned, but he acknowledged that while he would love to sell you one of his pits he was genuinely interested in all the different styles of cookers at the event, and his mantra was "its all about family, friends and BBQ!"
The common theme I hear from Aaron Franklin is "you can do what you want -its all good"
I'm just anti-weBBer...
If I was cooking for the number of people that these guys cook for, I am certain I would want a rig like Franklin makes in one episode.
But since I cook for the family, I'm quite happy with my kettle.