Vintage vs. Old

[MartyG]

Met with Thin Blue Smoke at lunch today, and one of the topics was whether "vintage" was an accurate term to use when describing an old kettle, and what would qualify a kettle as "vintage" - age-wise. Not sure "antique" would apply any time soon. The customary definition of antique requires that an item be at least 100 years old and in original, unaltered condition, so we'll have to wait 39 years before anything Weber meets that standard. Cars have a whole separate standard, and I think they get a break as "antique" in only 50 years.

So when do you think we should refer to a kettle as a "vintage" kettle? MTH? MBH and older? Wood handles and older? Pre date-coded kettles? Is there a snowball's chance that we can actually reserve the term for some agreed-to standard? Do we need a convention, or should we just let it slide? Might come in handy when we set up a gallery of kettles in broad categories.

IMHO, I like the idea of vintage kettles as pre date-code. That brings us back to kettles no later than 1978. 35 years. Not as vintage as yours truly, but pretty damn vintage!

Your ideas welcome!

[jimmy_dong]

I don't think applying a moniker to a certain age group would be sufficient. That would further confuse people.

Generation separation would be more efficient I would think. With breakdowns of what models were available during that generation.

There still would be blurred lines due to model layovers but easier to identify with a generation break.

I am still relatively new and still scratching my head over what indicates a generation break as it seems the changes almost happen randomly but there has to be a rhyme or reason.

[pbe gummi bear]

Vintage is just the bougie way of saying OLD! It's gonna be hard to define exactly what qualifies as vintage especially for those grills where the only difference is the pat stamp. I think it's cool how the WKC defined terminology like MBH. That's good enough for me!

I don't think applying a moniker to a certain age group would be sufficient. That would further confuse people.

Generation separation would be more efficient I would think. With breakdowns of what models were available during that generation.

There still would be blurred lines due to model layovers but easier to identify with a generation break.

I am still relatively new and still scratching my head over what indicates a generation break as it seems the changes almost happen randomly but there has to be a rhyme or reason.

Jimmy, you'll pick up on stuff. There's alot of little details that help to age a grill, from color, accessories, handles, stamps, ashpan, etc. Alot of us usually get within a few years of the actual date of manufacture from a quick glance. It's alot of fun though. Especially when someone on CL is selling an "18.5" Weber that's only a few years old" but it's actually a vintage 26'r. 

I also wouldn't say that there has been a big change in generations. It's kinda like porsche. Small refinements that add up over the years, but once in a while you get a feature that shakes things up. Like one-touch kettles and water-cooled porsches. Then you'll have things that are totally new and exciting like a WSM or a gasser which you can think of as the Porsche Panamera and Cayenne. But I digress.

[Jeff]

I think in terms of Weber grills, the history and the timeline there were introduced compared the the original buoy kettle, the term "vintage" will always be used loosely.  I would think anything with a metal handle on the bowl is vintage.  For example, when I see a red Mastertouch...I never think "vintage"

[jimmy_dong]

Vintage is just the bougie way of saying OLD! It's gonna be hard to define exactly what qualifies as vintage especially for those grills where the only difference is the pat stamp. I think it's cool how the WKC defined terminology like MBH. That's good enough for me!

I don't think applying a moniker to a certain age group would be sufficient. That would further confuse people.

Generation separation would be more efficient I would think. With breakdowns of what models were available during that generation.

There still would be blurred lines due to model layovers but easier to identify with a generation break.

I am still relatively new and still scratching my head over what indicates a generation break as it seems the changes almost happen randomly but there has to be a rhyme or reason.

Jimmy, you'll pick up on stuff. There's alot of little details that help to age a grill, from color, accessories, handles, stamps, ashpan, etc. Alot of us usually get within a few years of the actual date of manufacture from a quick glance. It's alot of fun though. Especially when someone on CL is selling an "18.5" Weber that's only a few years old" but it's actually a vintage 26'r. 

I also wouldn't say that there has been a big change in generations. It's kinda like porsche. Small refinements that add up over the years, but once in a while you get a feature that shakes things up. Like one-touch kettles and water-cooled porsches. Then you'll have things that are totally new and exciting like a WSM or a gasser which you can think of as the Porsche Panamera and Cayenne. But I digress.

I have no doubt that I will pick up on the differences.  I am used to it from a horrid and expensive car/motorcycle hobby. lol. The only thing is I learn by touching and feeling. I need to get a few in my possession. 1 red and 2 black isn't going to cut it. I need my dose of fruit and nuts. Kind of like a trail mix of Webers. LMAO.

Whats the oldest MBH? Not the flat looking handle, the rounded one. When did that handle change to plastic?

That's the generation breaks I have in mind.

[pbe gummi bear]

I believe this hybrid kettle is the oldest MBH. Note the flat top like the original but the legs and bowl are what we know of as the kettle today. Shortly after this ~1955 Weber went the domed lid and the vent perpendicular of the handle. Then they moved the vent to the end of the handle in parallel. These early kettles had the Wood Dale stamp on the top. After that the kettles remained largely unchanged, short of the leg patent that obsoleted the thumb screws, changes to the ashpan, shift to wood handles, and change in wheels. Its not until the late 90's where the one touch became the standard that the complete changeover to plastic handles happened



This pic is not mine but was originally shared on BBQ Brethren.

[jimmy_dong]

So I guess there is no solid delineation from who got what handles? There has to be something that separates the age of kettles. I am not talking about the alpha stamp system either.

So there is Alpha, pat pend, and pre pat pend, but that is still to general. What else can break down age?

[Bob BQ]

Met with Thin Blue Smoke at lunch today, and one of the topics was whether "vintage" was an accurate term to use when describing an old kettle, and what would qualify a kettle as "vintage" - age-wise.

Technically, the word "vintage" should include the year of whatever is being discussed (and really, really technically is used to describe what year a wine was produced)..  This wine is a vintage 1981. 

That being said, vintage can also be used to describe items of high quality.  As with many words, the proper use and definition has become somewhat loose.  This car is a vintage 1955. This grill is a vintage 1968. 

Now, it is more often used to describe an item that is, simply put, rare.

And now, the English major side of me will relax.  Thanks.

[Thin Blue Smoke]

Now that it looks like Bob cleared the air, I will jump in with my non-English major thought. Don't hate me Bob..... 

I was initially thinking of sometime in the current production vs out of production features. The main thing comment to mind was wood handles and their lack of current production from Weber. But I think a good point was made regarding how rare the item is too, thus impacting its value  and ultimate current common application of the term vintage. So, I now revise and extend my comments to say, somewhere in the MBH period I think the slang usage of vintage starts to apply. I tend to agree now with pre date code vents or even pat Pend.  MBH are still pretty common in some respects too. Of course, when you are talking value, that can mean something different to everyone as well.

And of cars have a special time period to be considered vintage, I certainly think Weber grills should as well.

[Craig]

There really is no clear standard. I use the term "vintage" or even "old school" a lot in lieu of "old" or "antique". It's like saying "classic rock" instead of "oldies" when it comes to music I grew up with. Maybe its my age, but I have a hard time referring to an 80s kettle or newer as vintage.. to me really, anything pre 1981 or with any metal handles is "vintage". But I'm sure to a younger member, "vintage" applies to anything with wood handles. I'm with Jeff, a Master Touch is not a vintage kettle to me, but they are collectible and I want one someday.

[glrasmussen]

There really is no clear standard. I use the term "vintage" or even "old school" a lot in lieu of "old" or "antique". It's like saying "classic rock" instead of "oldies" when it comes to music I grew up with. Maybe its my age, but I have a hard time referring to an 80s kettle or newer as vintage.. to me really, anything pre 1981 or with any metal handles is "vintage". But I'm sure to a younger member, "vintage" applies to anything with wood handles. I'm with Jeff, a Master Touch is not a vintage kettle to me, but they are collectible and I want one someday.

Couldn't have worded it better, IMO. Still many collectibles post 79.