SnS vs. the Snake method

[addicted-to-smoke]

Applying the same numbers to the next time isn't relevant when making a comparison. Applying the same differences between methods to the next time has relevance, because it's the differential that will remain even when variables of weather and meats alter the totals.

For a snake to "last longer" than the S 'n S you'd almost certainly have to be using more charcoal, less air, lower temp, less meat/easier meat, perhaps a S' n S 1.0 instead of a S 'n S 2.0 and so on.

The heat loss alone, through the bowl wall when not using a basket of any sort, is no joke. That lost heat costs extra fuel and air to overcome for a given grate temp, yeah? I honestly did not read where your anecdote accounted for any of those variables.

[HoosierKettle]

I'm not bashing the product at all.  It obviously excels in certain areas.

[Big Dawg]

I love it ! ! !  This is starting remind me of all the oil change threads back on the Road Star Clinic forum I used to visit before I got my Indian.

(Synthetic vs Dino . . . 4.5 vs 5 qts . . . popcorn)





BD

[Transit98]

No sir but you can't apply those burn times to tomorrow, next week, or next season was my point. It's also much different without the ATC in a real cook.

Not trying to one up, in all my SnS long cooks I'm refueling at about the 9 hour mark. I'd like to see what other SnS users say their average burn times are on their cooks.


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I have had similar refill time around the 9 hour mark. My brothers and I used to cook in 55 drum smokers I made. They would cook 12 hours solid. (I will post pics one of these days)

The key to also remember when cooking slow and low is.................

"If you'r Look'n your not cook'n"

Get the grill up to temp/place meat in position/close lid/ wait 90 minuets before you /take a peek-Spray with apple juice/close that lid and drink. Have faith in the set up!


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[lksdrinker]

Actually, I care about variables being reduced. Tests with uncontrolled variables are pointless. Uncontrolled variables are not "real world" as much as they are unreliable and suspect to misinterpretation.

Ya'll took science in school, right?

Yes it was great to gather scientific data for a non practical application.

Holding temps and gauging fuel times is incredibly relevant for what we do.

holding temp is certainly relevant.  But the use of an ATC surely throws this data right out the window.  You can always hold temps with an ATC if using the SNS  or the snake method.....which the video did a good job showing.  I'm not sure why that might make the SNS a better choice than the snake method though? 

Complete speculation, but the lack of ever opening the lids during this test sort of throws the data askew too.  Sure we try to limit how often we open the lid during a cook.....but I've never made it through a whole cook without peeking at least once or twice.  I wonder if the nature of the "piled" up charcoal in a SNS would cause more of a temp spike if/when opening the lid vs the temp spike that might occur with the snake method if/when you open the lid. 

There comes a point where reducing the variables can make the test look good on paper; but if you cant recreate the same "laboratory setting" at home you'll never get the same results.  Its like how the EPA estimates the gas mileage of a particular car.  Most people/customers will never see the same number in a real world application and if they care to know, they have to compile their own data and do their own real world testing to come up with their own decision.

[Schaefd2]

I don't have a SNS but I think if I wanted to cook a long time while maintaining a steady temp, I would definitely use the snake. I've had great results while snaking it up, and I was on pace for a 12 hour run at 250 with 2x2 Royal Oak Ridge.

Isn't the SNS basically using the minion method? If so, I've had terrible results with the minion method. The temp spiked way high (450) because I was laid up with a stomach bug and I couldn't monitor the air vents.


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[Foster Dahlet]

I like my SnS a lot.  It stays in my grill and I use it for direct, indirect, and low and slow.  It is a versatile accessory and well built.....and it gives me more space when I am doing low and slow.  That said, it is easier for me to dial in the temp on a snake and maintain it at that temp.  The total cook times have been about even for me....but a little longer on the snake.  However, each time I use the SnS for low n slow I get better at dialing in and maintaining temps.....which means less temp spikes and longer cook times.  I think it is a matter of learning and getting one's process down, which leads to better results.   

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[addicted-to-smoke]

holding temp is certainly relevant.  But the use of an ATC surely throws this data right out the window.  You can always hold temps with an ATC if using the SNS  or the snake method.....which the video did a good job showing.  I'm not sure why that might make the SNS a better choice than the snake method though? 

Complete speculation, but the lack of ever opening the lids during this test sort of throws the data askew too.  Sure we try to limit how often we open the lid during a cook.....but I've never made it through a whole cook without peeking at least once or twice.  I wonder if the nature of the "piled" up charcoal in a SNS would cause more of a temp spike if/when opening the lid vs the temp spike that might occur with the snake method if/when you open the lid. 

There comes a point where reducing the variables can make the test look good on paper; but if you cant recreate the same "laboratory setting" at home you'll never get the same results.  Its like how the EPA estimates the gas mileage of a particular car.  Most people/customers will never see the same number in a real world application and if they care to know, they have to compile their own data and do their own real world testing to come up with their own decision.

Keep in mind that when car shopping, we are comparing MPG from one vehicle to the others. "That car's relatively efficient. That truck slurps fuel compared to ..." If you realize that it's not a guarantee of on-road MPG, that doesn't change the fact that one vehicle will be relatively more efficient than another, even if the gap between them isn't perfectly, exactly maintained 100% of the time, yeah?

I think it's odd that you're also hung up on this snake vs. SnS test to somehow imply something never claimed, that the charcoal would last "just as long" in your own backyard. That's not the point of a controlled comparison test. At all.

[addicted-to-smoke]

... Isn't the SNS basically using the minion method? If so, I've had terrible results with the minion method. The temp spiked way high (450) because I was laid up with a stomach bug and I couldn't monitor the air vents.

Very similar, sure. I've used ABC's Charcoal Basket (the small one that fits 18s) as a lower-and-slower method, yes by lighting only about 4-6 briquets on one end. And I also saw the temp climb and climb, as the basket became lit but the earliest coals were not yet dead.

But that was on my dancook grill, which only can have the lid vent adjusted. (And my use of Weber cook grate meant the lid probably doesn't perfectly seal.) In short, almost an uncontrolled airleak.

There's that air issue again ... changing the temp variable ...

[lksdrinker]

holding temp is certainly relevant.  But the use of an ATC surely throws this data right out the window.  You can always hold temps with an ATC if using the SNS  or the snake method.....which the video did a good job showing.  I'm not sure why that might make the SNS a better choice than the snake method though? 

Complete speculation, but the lack of ever opening the lids during this test sort of throws the data askew too.  Sure we try to limit how often we open the lid during a cook.....but I've never made it through a whole cook without peeking at least once or twice.  I wonder if the nature of the "piled" up charcoal in a SNS would cause more of a temp spike if/when opening the lid vs the temp spike that might occur with the snake method if/when you open the lid. 

There comes a point where reducing the variables can make the test look good on paper; but if you cant recreate the same "laboratory setting" at home you'll never get the same results.  Its like how the EPA estimates the gas mileage of a particular car.  Most people/customers will never see the same number in a real world application and if they care to know, they have to compile their own data and do their own real world testing to come up with their own decision.

Keep in mind that when car shopping, we are comparing MPG from one vehicle to the others. "That car's relatively efficient. That truck slurps fuel compared to ..." If you realize that it's not a guarantee of on-road MPG, that doesn't change the fact that one vehicle will be relatively more efficient than another, even if the gap between them isn't perfectly, exactly maintained 100% of the time, yeah?

I think it's odd that you're also hung up on this snake vs. SnS test to somehow imply something never claimed, that the charcoal would last "just as long" in your own backyard. That's not the point of a controlled comparison test. At all.

I suppose if fuel economy was your deciding factor in buying a car then yes you would compare like that.  But not everyone does.  Some people want X vehicle (or X anything), and research that thing and all that it does.  Then when they use that thing their results are not always the same. 

I'm not hung up on trying to keep my charcoal that hot for that same amount of time, and  not sure why you'd imply that.   I'm more hung up on the fact that this test basically showed that the SNS does a slightly marginal better job at keeping coals hot vs the snake method.  I personally dont think that slight difference is worth the asking price of the device. 

Like all those gimmicky carburetor or throttle body spacers that promised better fuel efficiency.  They used bogus comparison experiments that showed laboratory results which could never be replicated in real world usage. 

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[powermatt99]

Since getting my SNS, I've been using it for all low and slow cooks on my kettle. I light two paraffin cubes, wait for them to burn out and then dial in my temp before adding the delicious animal parts. It was just as easy to maintain temp as a snake and a bit easier to set up. I typically used a smaller snake before the SNS days because I wasn't as deft at dialing in my temps. Less fuel touching meant it was more forgiving with airflow adjustment (or at least that's what my rationale was). It was perfect for ribs but I needed to add fuel for longer cooks.

Bottom line, I found what worked for me with the hardware I had at the time.

I use an ATC now so it doesn't much matter. FWIW, the ATC gave me a lot longer burn times with the same snake setup than without the ATC. That is a function of the efficiency of an ATC.

[addicted-to-smoke]

" ... this test basically showed that the SNS does a slightly marginal better job at keeping coals hot vs the snake method.  I personally dont think that slight difference is worth the asking price of the device."

lksdrinker, please understand that I would NEVER (at least I don't intend to?) make value judgements for others. I appreciate you sharing what's important to you, and that you don't think the advantages (assuming they are in fact real) are worth the expense. It not only "makes sense," but is inherently irrefutable. No one can ever dictate to us what something is worth.

P.S. approx 13.5 hrs vs approx 16.5 hrs is approx an 18% difference. Not chicken feed, whether you're talking gasoline or charcoal.

[addicted-to-smoke]

Since getting my SNS, I've been using it for all low and slow cooks on my kettle. I light two paraffin cubes, wait for them to burn out and then dial in my temp before adding the delicious animal parts. It was just as easy to maintain temp as a snake and a bit easier to set up. I typically used a smaller snake before the SNS days because I wasn't as deft at dialing in my temps. Less fuel touching meant it was more forgiving with airflow adjustment (or at least that's what my rationale was). It was perfect for ribs but I needed to add fuel for longer cooks.

Bottom line, I found what worked for me with the hardware I had at the time.

I use an ATC now so it doesn't much matter. FWIW, the ATC gave me a lot longer burn times with the same snake setup than without the ATC. That is a function of the efficiency of an ATC.

My snakes take (in my view) "a long time" to settle in. Too cold, then maybe too hot, now fix the temp again and so on. Not a problem if you account for that.

@ powermatt99 I'm still green with my regular 1.0 S'nS (has no bottom) but have already noticed the bowl doesn't run as hot compared to a Weber or homemade basket ... my question is, you're loading up the basket, lighting 2 cubes, then after they're dead close everything down a bit?

I think we're all searching for reliable, repeatable setups here, with either smoking or with grilling.

[KettleMaster]

Obviously a great product but you cant deny the video was a pretty biased sales pitch imho.I have used the Snake for Pulled Pork,Brisket,Ribs and other long cooks and had no issues.It only takes around 5 mins to build a 2×2 snake which is no big deal if you are doing a long cook lol

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[MacEggs]

I didn't bother watching the video ...

http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/fuse-snake-lasted-11-plus-hours/

http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/the-18'-outrider-is-a-great-cooker/