I have a few questions regarding my new Mastertouch grill

[TeddyC]

Guys first of all, this site is really awesome.  I'm so happy to have finally bought a Weber Kettle.  I use my WSM all of the time for long smokes but I've never owned a kettle.  In my stable I have 2 Masterbuilt electric smokers (crappy); a large gas grill and a cheap charcoal grill that I bought from Home Depot.  But a Weber Kettle is on a higher level.   As I'm just learning how to use this machine, please help me understand a few concepts:

Constant Temperature:
1 - Based on the Weber manual, I heated up 50 briquettes of Kingsford charcoal (I fill them in my chimney and heat them up on my gas grill's side burner).  Once I get a burn, I poured half into each of the charcoal holder.   I had all vents fully opened.  I got as high as 400*, then I put some soaked wooked chips in the charcoal holder and then put on my chicken.  30 minutes into the cook, I noticed that the thermometer dropped down to 325*.  I'm assuming the cold chicken brought down the temperature.  Did I do something wrong to get that drop in heat? 

2 - At what point should I start adding more charcoal?  If I went from 400* down to 325* in 30 minutes, I'm wondering if I either let the charcoal get to hot on my side burner or should I be adding in more charcoal.

3 - When I use my WSM, I'll cook using the Minion method and will use on average 3 - 4 chunks of wood for my smoke.  How often should I add wood chips into my charcoal holder?

4 - Water or no water in my drip pan?  For kettle's what's the general rule.

5 - I read somewhere that once I add my coals, the kettle should get as hot as 500*.  Well today for my first cook, I only got to 400*.  Do I need to get to 500* and then bring down the heat or does it matter? 

6 - And, what should I do, in order to reach 500*?  I like to reach this temperature to sear a steak.

7 -  Do you guys use covers for your kettle?  Yesterday I saw that Home Depot is selling covers for $30???  What the heck...

Thanks guys, that's all I can think of for now but I'm sure I'll have more questions.

[MINIgrillin]

Wow..! That's a lot. I'll give it a shot and I'm sure others will weigh in here shortly.

1) don't trust the vent temp. It is notoriously "off". Mine has 50 degrees variance grill level to therm. For best results clip a digi therm probe to grate at food level. But to answer your question...it was most likely the chicken. Be mindful of where therm is. If it's directly above the fire it's going to read significantly higher than if it's above the cold food. You will get to the point of not using the lid therm and just throw coals in there and chicken cook it up till it looks pretty then stick it with a Thermapen.

2) I usually add 8-10 coals at 1hr to hold temp.

3) I add chunk just before food hits the grill and when adding more coals. I enjoy a lighter smoke so...whatever.

4) generally no water. Maybe sometimes with ribs

5) you will need a heaping full chimney to hit that temp. Especially if you want entire grill at that temp.

6) I use my baskets for a sear zone. I'll overload them with well ashed over coals and place them next to each other on one side of grate to make a sear zone and a cool zone on the other side. Sear/flip/sear/move to cool zone to cook to temp

7) yes. Covered if staying out in weather. My war horses stay on covered porch and show ponies are in the garage.


Questions are good. Bring em. Grill on bro

[Harleysmoker]

I am no expert here but I think I turn out some good food on my Weber Kettle. When I use the charcoal baskets, I never count how many, I just fill a Weber chimney till its about 3 inches from the top. Sometimes I use what was left over in the baskets from the last cook. I just put a little fresh charcoal in the chimney first, then dump the used charcoal in, and add some fresh on top. The new charcoal in the bottom helps it light faster and keeps the smaller pieces from falling out.

When the flames start coming out of the top of the chimney, and the top charcoal is a little ashed around the edges, i dump it evenly into both baskets. I put aluminum foil down to catch the grease drippings, put on the cooking grate, all vents wide open for chicken, and let that heat up for about 10 minutes to burn off any crud left from the last cook.

I never soak any wood chips in liquid when using on my kettle or my WSM. I put a small chunk of wood on top of the cooking over each basket instead of in the basket. Wet wood is probably what brought your temperature down. 450* is easy doing what I do.

If I'm cooking a steak, its different depending on the thickness. If its a thick steak, I dump a chimney on half the grill, put the steak on the other side indirect untill it hits a certain temperature, then put it on direct to sear.

My favorite way to do a chicken is spatchcocked with a basket on each side, chicken in the middle. You shouldn't have to add any more charcoal for the whole cook. A whole chicken usually is done around 1 hour 15 minutes for me. 165* deep in breast, 175* in the thigh.

Here are a couple chicken cooks I did.

[1buckie]

For one & two & sort of three, try using dry chip or even small chunks of wood.....here's the way I think of it:

the fire has to burn off the moisture that's on the wood, then get back to what it was going to do anyway, burn the wood for smoke flavor.....wetting the wood just makes the fire work harder.....
not to say it can't or shouldn't be done, but it's tricky using wet wood & getting the fire to burn clean......
That will be a portion of the temp drop right there......

The cold meat going on will drop the temp some....I try to guess it out to start off a little bit higher heat so it drops to somewhere in the ballpark of where the normal run temp will be for that piece or cook....

The charcoal thing I'll think of like this:

If it needs to go up in temp, or is beginning to drop & needs to stay about the same, add some lit coals....
How many depends on each situation & knowing comes from the experience of doing it a few times.....

If the temp is fairly stable & about where it needs to be, but the cook needs to go on for awhile, unlit, or mostly unlit coals, so they can then lite off over time & extend the cook.....

Water pans / drip pans are fine....some use water to help the temp keep stable for a bit longer cook & it will add in moisture to the cooking chamber.....downside is, it's harder to get high temps that way.....

You can get screamin' hot temps in a kettle just loading in a bunch of coal....lump maybe higher than briquettes....Troy & MacEggs get 1100 & 1200 degrees doing pizza (personally, I think this is nutz, but WTFDIK?)
The coals will be a bit hotter if concentrated in a smaller area like the basket or piled tight......using a "chimney's worth" as a measure is good as a lot of folks go by that & it gives you a standard to work with, but....it doesn't have to be the only amount you start with....could be less for a light cook, could be x 1&1/2 or more for a real high heat thing....guess that says something about 5 & 6......

I generally like to come UP TO the temp I'd like to cook at, them maintain....it's easier than fighting it back down....
Hi-heat searing / grilling is different....then, it's more "All In" longer or shorter time on or near the coals....

Cover's not a bad idea....the workhorses are exposed, the beauty queens are covered or inside....

Good stuff from Mini & Harley there also.....get one chicken like Harley's & you'll be hooked on kettles for life.....

here's a few example type things.....

Lit & unlit, mixed to go aways...



Starting with taters, as they take the longest.....525 degrees...





let those go for awhile, then add in the chicken pieces.....still fairly hot...



No piddlin' around...slap 'em on there (action shot of slappin' 'em on)



This was mine w/ the smoke later on as the wife doesn't like smoked so much....




Hope that helps some.....

.

[TeddyC]

Well, I just finished my first whole chicken and it was great.  I also learned alot during this cook. 
First off, I'm an idiot.  I was wondering why my temp. kept dropping so I looked at the assembly guide.  I had the ash catcher ring in the clear ashes mode, instead of the vents open mode.  Duh!!!
As a result, my dang chicken took 2.5 hours to finish.  I pulled it out at 175* IT in the breast.  But it was so moist.  All I did was rub it with EVOI; Kosher Salt; and Garlic pepper.  Then after an hour and half, I basted it with a mixture of butter; oregano; and thyme. 
Next time though, I'm going to spatchcock it, instead of doing a whole bird.
The picture doesn't do it any justice but it was incredibly good.  Thanks all for the feedback!

[1buckie]

Wow....a few people chime in & you already got the hang of it !!!!!

[Jammato]

Teddy I have tried 2 cooks of beer can chicken using some somewhat minion methods I have posted in a thread

http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/charcoal-baskets-and-heat-experiments/

my target was 350 degrees and the chicken takes just over an hour comes off so moist and delicious

[mrbill]

Guys first of all, this site is really awesome.  I'm so happy to have finally bought a Weber Kettle.  I use my WSM all of the time for long smokes but I've never owned a kettle.  In my stable I have 2 Masterbuilt electric smokers (crappy); a large gas grill and a cheap charcoal grill that I bought from Home Depot.  But a Weber Kettle is on a higher level.   As I'm just learning how to use this machine, please help me understand a few concepts:

Constant Temperature:
1 - Based on the Weber manual, I heated up 50 briquettes of Kingsford charcoal (I fill them in my chimney and heat them up on my gas grill's side burner).  Once I get a burn, I poured half into each of the charcoal holder.   I had all vents fully opened.  I got as high as 400*, then I put some soaked wooked chips in the charcoal holder and then put on my chicken.  30 minutes into the cook, I noticed that the thermometer dropped down to 325*.  I'm assuming the cold chicken brought down the temperature.  Did I do something wrong to get that drop in heat? 

2 - At what point should I start adding more charcoal?  If I went from 400* down to 325* in 30 minutes, I'm wondering if I either let the charcoal get to hot on my side burner or should I be adding in more charcoal.

3 - When I use my WSM, I'll cook using the Minion method and will use on average 3 - 4 chunks of wood for my smoke.  How often should I add wood chips into my charcoal holder?

4 - Water or no water in my drip pan?  For kettle's what's the general rule.

5 - I read somewhere that once I add my coals, the kettle should get as hot as 500*.  Well today for my first cook, I only got to 400*.  Do I need to get to 500* and then bring down the heat or does it matter? 

6 - And, what should I do, in order to reach 500*?  I like to reach this temperature to sear a steak.

7 -  Do you guys use covers for your kettle?  Yesterday I saw that Home Depot is selling covers for $30???  What the heck...

Thanks guys, that's all I can think of for now but I'm sure I'll have more questions.

1-wet wood on coals is what killed your heat. no need to soak the wood, just put it on and wait til it's burning clean
2-not an easy call. based on your first question, I think there may be a correlation between the two though. that being said, it's really environment dependent(ie-trial and error based on your cooker and location
3-zero. chunks in the coal pile will provide plenty of smoke flavor even if you can't see it. (imo-the most common mistake folks make when smoking is to want to see the white billowy stuff coming from everywhere. the problem is that white smoke means a dirty fire and is putting out some things that'll make your food taste nasty.)
4-after many experiments, I am water free. no need on the kettle imo. for the wsm, my water pan is filled with foil balls and then covered with foil.
5-dump a chimney of oranges(glowing coals) onto a pile of coals with all vents wide open and you should have no problem hitting 500.
6-see #5
7-yes. even if they sit outside, using a cover will protect your grill.

[mike.stavlund]

You are getting some great advice here, @TeddyC , and you are well on your way. 

I'll just chime in on the issue of water pans, as I understand them.  I think the principle behind water inside a cooking vessel is to *reduce* temps (even Weber will tell you that the water pan in a WSM won't add moisture to the meat).  My understanding (as a non-scientist and non-engineer) is that water is naturally resistant to temperature change, and so will tend to hold a consistent temp.  Too, water absorbs a ton of NRG for a phase change (ie, from liquid to vapor), which kinda 'scrubs off' extra heat to keep the cooking temps relatively low.  So in a WSM (or a kettle) where you're trying to smoke something at a relatively low temp of say 225 to 270, the water will be a big help since it's awfully hard to get that cooker up to 300 as long as there is water present.  But have you ever noticed how quick the temps will climb in your WSM if the pan runs dry?  Yeah, that's what I'm talking about right there.

So if you're trying to roast at higher temps, you're going to make things really difficult if you use a water pan.  OTOH, if you're using a kettle or WSM for smoking, by all means use that water to your advantage. 

[Jammato]

great reply Mike
unless that water is inside the load, it adds no moisture, it controls heat swings

[1buckie]

Great stuff !!!

And what Mike said here:
     "So in a WSM (or a kettle) where you're trying to smoke something at a relatively low temp of say 225 to 270, the water will be a big help since it's awfully hard to get that cooker up to 300 as long as there is water present."

And Jammato here:

great reply Mike
unless that water is inside the load, it adds no moisture, it controls heat swings

I try to keep in mind that in the process of cooking meat (esp. the big pieces) the piece is pushing moisture "out", in other words, it's losing water weight.......people on weight loss diets might find something helpful there (hot yoga, perhaps?)

There's whole huge diatribes & treatises & stuff on moisture exchange / loss & the meat 'stall' time that has to do with moisture loss....then,

here's another fun piece of the puzzle....

Fairly high heat controlled burn with wet wood.....




















Cherry chicken, designed to squirt the person next to you when eaten.....steamed, smoked & cooked thru in one easy step......



Trick is to have the heat up high enough first, then dump in the wood.....burned my forearm numerous times with steam while adding wood....

Now, even if the meat is losing water moisture during cooking, the added in steaming sort of equalizes the moisture content....

I foul up sometimes & let the coals get too low or wood a little too wet, but if done correctly, turns out very nicely cooked & tasting food.....


Do 'Turds like this all the time & almost don't like them done w/ dry wood....





PS: I am the kid that runs with scissors......

[MINIgrillin]

Cherry chicken, designed to squirt the person next to you when eaten...LOL!

[Jammato]

here are some ideas I have learned, either correctly or wrongly but they help me make decisions about grilling

Meat loses moisture during a cook because it constricts and the moisture is forced out.
slow cooking allows fats to render and become liquid, helping to retain the moisture

one of the reasons we rest meat is to allow moisture that has not left the load to reabsorb as the meat cools and expands leaving room for in the meat for the moisture to go. Notice if you cut meat before resting it a ton of juices come out, but the meat is dry if you let it sit a few minutes. Let it rest 10 to 15 and a lot less moisture runs out, but the meat is so moist.

I have a bit of a theory, as meat cooks in a DRY heat moisture wicks out by surface area, and the way to fight that is to either keep the outside moist with a spray or a mop, or to introduce it to the inside of the load before cooking in the form of an injection ( or beer can chicken) this way you have extra moisture inside the load. (I have seen guys at competitions injecting some serious amounts of liquids)

Using steam would keep the outside of the meat wet and so wicking would be a minimum. and wet chips would create steam. But I do not see a large amount of steam potential coming from the smokenator pan, I see it being more of a mass controlling temp both by size and by the energy it needs to become steam

controlling heat has been my best way to control moisture, the higher the heat the more dry the meat (statement clarified in my next post this thread)

resting was the next big thing I learned.

I hope these observations along with what others have said will help, remember this is not rocket science, there are different ways to get the same results. That is what makes each of us have what is called STYLE, or our methods and we all have fans that will swear by us, My biggest fortays are pulled pork and kansas city style ribs. I also do a mean beer can chicken. Do not get me wrong, I do a great brisket, can grill a steak to perfection and I pride myself in being able to do entire meals on a grill keeping a 22.5 and a SJS going at one time and delivering everything to the table on time.
As I have said before, I am a grillfella, pitmaster is to narrow. (Grillfella, found that word here and am proud to embrace it)

Anyway, that Masters touch you have, I got mine a few weeks back, I think it is the ultimate kettle and I have played around with it quite a bit, sheesh all my tee shirts smell like smoke right now. Just take it one step at a time, ask questions, everyone here loves to talk grilling.

and remember, if something confuses you, ask questions, sometimes we make statements that can mean one thing in one style of grilling and another thing in another style of grilling.

[1buckie]

Grate observations, Jammato !!!

This one esp. is sometimes baffling to me:
"controlling heat has been my best way to control moisture, the higher the heat the more dry the meat"

...being more of a BBQist than a griller, I get in trouble with higher heat cookups, but things like chicken & steaks, beginning to sort of get the hang of higher heat, LESS time exposed will still produce the juicy effect......

The chicken from up near the top of the page went quick & came out juicy....



Mopping & spritzing are cool, just remember there's heat loss (some, I try to keep it quick & to a minimum) from opening the cooker & the extra moisture added into the cooking process....both will slow down the cooking time some.....
 I may kinda be getting too complex with some of this, but to simplify, I think of grilling a lot like golf....play the ball where it lies....be flexible & roll w/ it as much as possible....

The longer cooks, are a little different because there's much more time to observe & adjust.....

Glad the MasterTouch's are getting their due right away, too !!!!

[Jammato]

I guess maybe I should clarify

on long cooks the higher the heat the less moistures

that is just part of grilling, we have different styles, we smoke, we BBQ we grill

I agree a great steak is hot and fast and moist, and a long cold smoke can dry meat out persevering the food.

I guess, I should have said long time and high heat, thanks for asking for a clarification, I could have steered someone so wrong.