If there all 1956s models then......

[Idahawk]

Why are there 2 different styles of ash-pans / utility shelves ?

  I know its certainly in the realm of possibility to have two styles in one giving year , but maybe were missing a clue here about determining age ? And I'm curious

Here is the weber model shown as the 1956 on webers own poster


 
Here it is again


And here's an actual ash pan


Corners are not rounded and crude
 
The aluminum triangle is cut out to fit around the leg. The triangle is simple but the way it attached originally is still a mystery one that Weber doesn't have an answer for.




Then you have this style





This style has
Rounded corners and it looks like a single bolt to attach it to the front leg or possibly even a hook?

Based on the design which one would you guess was the first style ?

[Idahawk]

.

[Craig]

Well first things first. The timeline that Weber has though cool to have and display/look at, it is most definitely NOT a 100% accurate representation of an appearance of a kettle in a certain year. Yes, Weber DID redesign the lids in 1956 from the "buoy" flatheads to the familiar dome style. We do know that. However, they list the Westerner as "1958" but it's first appearance so far that we know of is in then 1963 catalog. They also give the Ranger as starting in 1965 but they picture a 1974 yellow ranger as their representation. In the 1960s, the Ranger had the lower set design handles and looked more like a wheel barrow and was an orange-red mist hue only. Back to the ash triangles. My best hypothesis is that the rounded cornered pans are the older style. The straight edge or "sharp corner" style looks cleaner and more "refined". It was previously believed that Weber changed to the disc shaped U clipped pans in 1958, however some literature/advertising shows the triangle pans (straight corners) on kettles as late as 1959. Im referring to the 1959 Weber sales force graduation photo/panorama. I don't have it at the moment. But it's got a bunch of black 22's scattered around the room with what appear to be red wheels (b&w photo) and sharp corner triangle trays. Does that solve the mystery? No, but it does shed some light on it...

BTW, for the age revisions, we on the age team are NOT using the timeline as a source. I have a timeline poster and it's cool, but it shows the Cado 22 as being introduced in 1964, when they were not yet available for another 3 years or so in reality.. The 1966 catalog that is a re-issue of the '64 one still shows no Cados but does still shows Glen Blue (Imperial)

[dazzo]

Do we know what happened after 1952 to change the design in '56?

For the pan, this is how I imagine it...

----------
We added vents to the bowl for better airflow, we need something to catch the ashes with now.

Let's build a pan. It gives us stability for the legs. Well add folded edges for strength.

You know, this pan is expensive. Let's stamp one out. Rounded edges will stiffen it a bit, and the stamping is less expensive.

This pan doesn't seem to do a very good job of catching ashes (this line will also be used a few decades later). Let's make a saucer that sits closer to the vents to catch the ashes. We'll add a wire triangle to stabilize the legs.

Do you think, years from now, the Weber Kettle Club will wonder what we were thinking?
---------


Hey buckie, you think if we burn a snake right to left, then have it burn back left to right, we can create some type of vortex to go back in time?

 

[Craig]

1952 buoy prototype "George's BAR-B-Q-KETTLE=1 lid vent, 1 bowl vent added shortly after test run.

1953-55

Buoy style lid and single vent bowls, but legs changed to familiar design. First there were no wheels, just three of what would look like "front legs" to us, then they added wheels, then after that they added a support axle, (seriously, they went a short while with wheels but no axle) then when the kettles were redesigned to the modern lids that's the earliest examples of the more familiar three daisy wheel bowl vent setup for better ventilation. Though I still tend to cook in 1953-55 mode with only one daisy vent open. Sometimes two but rarely all three..

[harris92]

Well first things first. The timeline that Weber has though cool to have and display/look at, it is most definitely NOT a 100% accurate representation of an appearance of a kettle in a certain year. Yes, Weber DID redesign the lids in 1956 from the "buoy" flatheads to the familiar dome style. We do know that. However, they list the Westerner as "1958" but it's first appearance so far that we know of is in then 1963 catalog. They also give the Ranger as starting in 1965 but they picture a 1974 yellow ranger as their representation. In the 1960s, the Ranger had the lower set design handles and looked more like a wheel barrow and was an orange-red mist hue only. Back to the ash triangles. My best hypothesis is that the rounded cornered pans are the older style. The straight edge or "sharp corner" style looks cleaner and more "refined". It was previously believed that Weber changed to the disc shaped U clipped pans in 1958, however some literature/advertising shows the triangle pans (straight corners) on kettles as late as 1959. Im referring to the 1959 Weber sales force graduation photo/panorama. I don't have it at the moment. But it's got a bunch of black 22's scattered around the room with what appear to be red wheels (b&w photo) and sharp corner triangle trays. Does that solve the mystery? No, but it does shed some light on it...

BTW, for the age revisions, we on the age team are NOT using the timeline as a source. I have a timeline poster and it's cool, but it shows the Cado 22 as being introduced in 1964, when they were not yet available for another 3 years or so in reality.. The 1966 catalog that is a re-issue of the '64 one still shows no Cados but does still shows Glen Blue (Imperial)

[harris92]

Ed's Custom has a Wood Dale vent, steel legs, and utility pan.

Well first things first. The timeline that Weber has though cool to have and display/look at, it is most definitely NOT a 100% accurate representation of an appearance of a kettle in a certain year. Yes, Weber DID redesign the lids in 1956 from the "buoy" flatheads to the familiar dome style. We do know that. However, they list the Westerner as "1958" but it's first appearance so far that we know of is in then 1963 catalog. They also give the Ranger as starting in 1965 but they picture a 1974 yellow ranger as their representation. In the 1960s, the Ranger had the lower set design handles and looked more like a wheel barrow and was an orange-red mist hue only. Back to the ash triangles. My best hypothesis is that the rounded cornered pans are the older style. The straight edge or "sharp corner" style looks cleaner and more "refined". It was previously believed that Weber changed to the disc shaped U clipped pans in 1958, however some literature/advertising shows the triangle pans (straight corners) on kettles as late as 1959. Im referring to the 1959 Weber sales force graduation photo/panorama. I don't have it at the moment. But it's got a bunch of black 22's scattered around the room with what appear to be red wheels (b&w photo) and sharp corner triangle trays. Does that solve the mystery? No, but it does shed some light on it...

BTW, for the age revisions, we on the age team are NOT using the timeline as a source. I have a timeline poster and it's cool, but it shows the Cado 22 as being introduced in 1964, when they were not yet available for another 3 years or so in reality.. The 1966 catalog that is a re-issue of the '64 one still shows no Cados but does still shows Glen Blue (Imperial)

[1buckie]

  "Hey buckie, you think if we burn a snake right to left, then have it burn back left to right, we can create some type of vortex to go back in time?

 "

Well, it is a space/ time continuum thing........

OK...............

.....let's talk Patents

""It is understood that while certain embodiments of the invention have been illustrated and described, it is not limited thereto except insofar as such limitations are included in the following claims and allowable functional equivalents thereof.""

Now that we have that out of the way, I been fuckin' around @ the patent office for awhile.......couldn't spot anything on the ash pan/ utility shelf in question, but I did find this:



And this.....which I believe is a collapsible version, never used............

[Idahawk]

What are those rounded pans made out of ?

Are there any examples ( photos ) of a Black WBMW with the rounded corner ash pans out there?

[Craig]

Well first things first. The timeline that Weber has though cool to have and display/look at, it is most definitely NOT a 100% accurate representation of an appearance of a kettle in a certain year. Yes, Weber DID redesign the lids in 1956 from the "buoy" flatheads to the familiar dome style. We do know that. However, they list the Westerner as "1958" but it's first appearance so far that we know of is in then 1963 catalog. They also give the Ranger as starting in 1965 but they picture a 1974 yellow ranger as their representation. In the 1960s, the Ranger had the lower set design handles and looked more like a wheel barrow and was an orange-red mist hue only. Back to the ash triangles. My best hypothesis is that the rounded cornered pans are the older style. The straight edge or "sharp corner" style looks cleaner and more "refined". It was previously believed that Weber changed to the disc shaped U clipped pans in 1958, however some literature/advertising shows the triangle pans (straight corners) on kettles as late as 1959. Im referring to the 1959 Weber sales force graduation photo/panorama. I don't have it at the moment. But it's got a bunch of black 22's scattered around the room with what appear to be red wheels (b&w photo) and sharp corner triangle trays. Does that solve the mystery? No, but it does shed some light on it...

BTW, for the age revisions, we on the age team are NOT using the timeline as a source. I have a timeline poster and it's cool, but it shows the Cado 22 as being introduced in 1964, when they were not yet available for another 3 years or so in reality.. The 1966 catalog that is a re-issue of the '64 one still shows no Cados but does still shows Glen Blue (Imperial)

Yep! That's the photo!

[dazzo]

May not mean anything, but, a 1963 patent, and it shows a rounded pan...

[Craig]

Interesting stuff. The '62 catalog shows the U clipped disc pans on the kettles.

[Idahawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong here , but the known examples of WBMW kettles with the rounded pans all seem to be with colored kettles and the straight edge pans with black WBMW kettles. If I were guessing I'd think the Black kettles came along before the colored kettles in the grand scheme of things and I think the stamped pan would take more time to create then the simple folded one , they'd have to build the press to stamp it out .
As far as the 1959 photo , I'm guessing those were their original issue cookers , could be from a few years prior , I doubt they'd get new units every year.

[Idahawk]

1952: no tray
1953:
1954:pointed bottom tray (source: B/W picture of cookout with top hat logo on grill with pointed edge tray)
1955:
1956:optional rounded bottom tray (source: Weber Brother/Weber-Stephens brochure list tray option)
1957:
1958: round ash pan (source: Weber time line poster. 

[Idahawk]

Guess we'll never know