Weber Kettle Club Forums
What's Going On => Website Issues & Suggestions => Topic started by: zavod44 on October 25, 2013, 02:27:14 PM
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So I have a question.....And this is not directed at anyone. Over the summer we had the big discussion about people offering more money and and going after rare grills in someones back yard. I had the philosophy and the thought that we should let local agents and locals have first crack at grills on CL. This started a firestorm that implicated a few people and caused hard feelings. I had the thought that among the WKC members we would hold to an esprit de corps and try to be civil and not offer stupid money when we don't have to....However this seems to not be the case....When a "White Whale" or a "grail" pops up it seems that all that WKC love and Esprit De Corps goes out the window and it's game on. I spoke to a member who spoke to the seller, and the seller again was tipped off that this WAS indeed collectible, Tons of stupid money was thrown at it....Soooooooo, my question here is does anyone really care about my thoughts of a WKC utopia or is this just a pipe dream? I get the feeling that it's just game on, and some people can't control themselves and they just have to have something. Is it mann gegen mann? Is it dog eat dog? I don't care really what the answer is, I just need to know the rules we are playing by? Because some of the heavy hitters with the thick wallets seem to be holding back when it comes to these long distance deals, so if it's game on them I'm gonna let those players know that the leashes are off and they can go for it? Soooo what say the collective? Is it just game on?
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Can you give more specifics? Are you only asking about dollar amount of a grill or a general collecting etiquette? What are the rules, other than common courtesy, are we talking about?
Do you have specific knowledge that there is a huge breakdown in the esprit de corps?
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So I have a question.....And this is not directed at anyone. Over the summer we had the big discussion about people offering more money and and going after rare grills in someones back yard. I had the philosophy and the thought that we should let local agents and locals have first crack at grills on CL. This started a firestorm that implicated a few people and caused hard feelings. I had the thought that among the WKC members we would hold to an esprit de corps and try to be civil and not offer stupid money when we don't have to....However this seems to not be the case....When a "White Whale" or a "grail" pops up it seems that all that WKC love and Esprit De Corps goes out the window and it's game on. I spoke to a member who spoke to the seller, and the seller again was tipped off that this WAS indeed collectible, Tons of stupid money was thrown at it....Soooooooo, my question here is does anyone really care about my thoughts of a WKC utopia or is this just a pipe dream? I get the feeling that it's just game on, and some people can't control themselves and they just have to have something. Is it mann gegen mann? Is it dog eat dog? I don't care really what the answer is, I just need to know the rules we are playing by? Because some of the heavy hitters with the thick wallets seem to be holding back when it comes to these long distance deals, so if it's game on them I'm gonna let those players know that the leashes are off and they can go for it? Soooo what say the collective? Is it just game on?
Thanks Brian, I have tried to follow that exact plan. When it comes to buying I have stayed on my turf and when it comes to selling I have stayed away from ebay because I wanted to keep prices reasonable for fellow members and keep the grills here.
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I could site many examples, but the seller today, said he was offered 200+ and was informed that this was a very valuable grill. I cannot prove it but I'm willing to bet that is was someone here that told him it was valuable. All this took place within a half hour after it was posted here on this very site. The seller told a member here that he had multiple offers, well above the $25 asking price....The seller than told the member here that since it was valuable he had to get the highest price. So this is a definate breakdown in the esprit de corps. As I said I don't really care, I just need to know if we should unleash the hounds.....
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100% agree with you Brian. I refuse to screw folks for a kettle. I don't care what kind it is or how old it is. I'd rather have some integrity at the end of the day.
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I could site many examples, but the seller today, said he was offered 200+ and was informed that this was a very valuable grill. I cannot prove it but I'm willing to bet that is was someone here that told him it was valuable. All this took place within a half hour after it was posted here on this very site. The seller told a member here that he had multiple offers, well above the $25 asking price....The seller than told the member here that since it was valuable he had to get the highest price. So this is a definate breakdown in the esprit de corps. As I said I don't really care, I just need to know if we should unleash the hounds.....
Brian,
While I might agree with you that people may have been tipped to this grill from this site, why do you think it was registered members who contacted the seller offering more money and informing the seller about the value of the grill? There is no bar for entry for the Trading Post section and if you look at who's on the site at ANY time you'll see more guests than registered members. There were 427 views of that post as I write this and I doubt all were registered members.
I like the idea of an esprit de corps, code of conduct, or whatever you want to call it but if the registered users are the only ones who honor it, but these guests don't, what will it accomplish? I understand why the administrators would want to keep the site open to guests to include the Trading Post section, but you have to realize there are some tradeoffs you'll have to accept with that decision.
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I hope I am not considered in the group of "game-ons", as a result of my Sequoia procurement. I try to follow protocol notifying of available locally or elsewhere. This one(in Rochester) seemed stagnant, I asked my wife to sic her dad in Buffalo on it, and he even bargained a lower price! That & coincidental free shipping made it a no-brainer to me. If I was out of bounds, somebody needs to speak up on it.
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It sounds like you have already decided there is a breakdown and are just wanting someone to give you the OK. If you are asking for personal responses from every member what there intentions are, I will give you mine. NO, I don't believe in bidding up a kettle. As I have said before, they are fun because I can use them and they are affordable. I don't plan on making artwork or a shrine out of them. So, there is my position again if that is what you are looking for. I don't think that we can hold everyone to that standard. Just like I don't think, as an example, I could hold you to a standard that you should only have X amount of kettles and should share the wealth. (which I know you do)
You are never going to get a consensus of ethical behavior in a large group like this. If you choose to "unleash the hounds" I believe you are relegating the WKC to just another hobby forum as I think there is a good element of overriding courtesy here. There are enough people here that lead by example to have hope that others will see the benefits of the community standards and follow. If somebody does not want to be one of those leaders than you can't force them.
I have observed enough here to see outstanding things happen just because of the WKC connections. I have also seen the WKC members use each other and the forum to manipulate deals. So, to use an old saying, don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Everyone has their own standard about courtesy/esprit de corps when it comes to collecting kettles and I actually think it should go beyond price negotiations on grails. Once the WKC becomes a tool just for increasing ones personal kettle collection it becomes useless to me. There is more here to offer and it only stands to be torn apart by focusing on the trade section.
So, I hope we continue to set a high standard for community behavior in a hobby and can get away from bringing this issue up every time some unknown person decides to disregard the community of the WKC. It is gonna happen and we know it but you have to make a personal choice if you want to go that route or not.
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No I don't want anyone to take this as personal, I'm just curious what everyone thinks. This is not an indictment of anyone. This is just a curiosity....please don't take this as a personal attack. I would also remind everyone the winner of this grill is a member, and did pay top dollar. So I wouldn't say it was a lurker. I would also say that there was really no one around this grill so it was fair game, it wasn't snagged out of anyone's "backyard" so to speak...
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I like saying release the hounds....I also like Mann gegen Mann
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I would like to get a consensus on mann gegen mann... come on nobody...no ramstein fans?
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I think behavior reflects attitude. Nuf said.
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People are people and ultimately we are a selfish lot. More of us here don't know each other personally so there is no real accountability. IE, if you screw someone over that you work with, you have to go in everyday and look that person in the face knowing they are disappointed in you. If someone screws another over on the WKC, whatever, right? None of you REALLY know me.
That said, personally, I don't give a crap about collectible grills. I got one last summer that I had a great time restoring but ultimately, I love cooking on a Kettle with a OT system as opposed to those 3 wheels. I ended up selling mine to Kendoll (maybe someday it will make it to OZ). With regards to what I do with grills, I buy them low, clean them up and resell them. If there is ever a collectible in the Detroit area, I will be your agent, I love doing it I love to help others get what they want and are unable to acquire in their area.
Collectibles are not to profitable on the open CL market so I would rather be an agent than flip.
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I will say this I spoke with the seller and also made my intentions clear on this white whale I asked if someone local was going after it and if not if someone local would deal as a agent. No responses. I had people pm me that if I got it and decided to part with it to keep them in mind. I even pm the original poster of the add to see if he was close enough to act as an agent. It came down to me having to secure an agent through a friend that had family within 10 mins of the white whale. My plan was to have agent pay for grill seller being none the wiser. As it turned out the agent was busy so onto that hope full agents best friend and he says yes he can do it. But would I contact seller so that is when Imake contact with seller and get story of the price is no longer $25 but higher and how much am i able to give for it. I ask him what is he looking for he says north of $200 cause he has an offer from Texas for that much plus shipping. Has also talked with 2 people from Massachusetts and someone is on their way from long island area I back out at this point but probe some for some answers. He says they asked questions about thumb screws and the vent also said they mentioned people collecting these grills and this one was a rare one indeed. So somebody IMO could not read my post I posted on the trading post regrading this grill which is how they found the grill also and didn't have the courtesy to post that they were on it also. So that's what I understand happened but everyone has their own version of the story and how it happened and then there is the version that really happened that know one knows completely.if two people are involved in an event they tell separate stories and yet there is the third real story and yet another fourth story an analyst would give you of that event and on and on it goes. For what it is worth that white whale was for sale on cl at $25 for at least a week.
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Well if you scored that planesman for $25 and sold it for $225, that's not too shabby. I think there's more money that you might think. Jeff's Smokey just sold for two bills, half a dozen accessories just did for $300, an old blue 18 sold for $800. I never made that much flipping grills....
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I think for the most part people here are more than willing to help someone out, either being an agent or tipping someone off about a grill in their area. I agree we need to limit who sees the trading post, my feeling is you have to be a member and have a set amount of posts, that way some one can't join and not post anything and snipe grills or tip off a seller to collectability and jack the price out of range of most of us.
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I will say this I spoke with the seller and also made my intentions clear on this white whale I asked if someone local was going after it and if not if someone local would deal as a agent. No responses. I had people pm me that if I got it and decided to part with it to keep them in mind. I even pm the original poster of the add to see if he was close enough to act as an agent. It came down to me having to secure an agent through a friend that had family within 10 mins of the white whale. My plan was to have agent pay for grill seller being none the wiser. As it turned out the agent was busy so onto that hope full agents best friend and he says yes he can do it. But would I contact seller so that is when Imake contact with seller and get story of the price is no longer $25 but higher and how much am i able to give for it. I ask him what is he looking for he says north of $200 cause he has an offer from Texas for that much plus shipping. Has also talked with 2 people from Massachusetts and someone is on their way from long island area I back out at this point but probe some for some answers. He says they asked questions about thumb screws and the vent also said they mentioned people collecting these grills and this one was a rare one indeed. So somebody IMO could not read my post I posted on the trading post regrading this grill which is how they found the grill also and didn't have the courtesy to post that they were on it also. So that's what I understand happened but everyone has their own version of the story and how it happened and then there is the version that really happened that know one knows completely.if two people are involved in an event they tell separate stories and yet there is the third real story and yet another fourth story an analyst would give you of that event and on and on it goes. For what it is worth that white whale was for sale on cl at $25 for at least a week.
So what's your stance on the issue? Just go for broke? Not sure where you stand....
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Jeff's Smokey just sold for two bills, half a dozen accessories just did for $300, an old blue 18 sold for $800. I never made that much flipping grills....
No doubt, I have never made that much flipping grills either. The one thing all of the grills mentioned have is they were sold on ebay. I would like to hear how our members feel about us selling on ebay vs. selling them here. I love helping someone get a hard to find grill in an area where they never see them, but If selling on ebay is the fair way to sell then I would like to hear about it. Maybe I have been unfair? ???
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I will say this I spoke with the seller and also made my intentions clear on this white whale I asked if someone local was going after it and if not if someone local would deal as a agent. No responses. I had people pm me that if I got it and decided to part with it to keep them in mind. I even pm the original poster of the add to see if he was close enough to act as an agent. It came down to me having to secure an agent through a friend that had family within 10 mins of the white whale. My plan was to have agent pay for grill seller being none the wiser. As it turned out the agent was busy so onto that hope full agents best friend and he says yes he can do it. But would I contact seller so that is when Imake contact with seller and get story of the price is no longer $25 but higher and how much am i able to give for it. I ask him what is he looking for he says north of $200 cause he has an offer from Texas for that much plus shipping. Has also talked with 2 people from Massachusetts and someone is on their way from long island area I back out at this point but probe some for some answers. He says they asked questions about thumb screws and the vent also said they mentioned people collecting these grills and this one was a rare one indeed. So somebody IMO could not read my post I posted on the trading post regrading this grill which is how they found the grill also and didn't have the courtesy to post that they were on it also. So that's what I understand happened but everyone has their own version of the story and how it happened and then there is the version that really happened that know one knows completely.if two people are involved in an event they tell separate stories and yet there is the third real story and yet another fourth story an analyst would give you of that event and on and on it goes. For what it is worth that white whale was for sale on cl at $25 for at least a week.
So what's your stance on the issue? Just go for broke? Not sure where you stand....
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I am torn where I stand..... if I had more money maybe go for broke if it was something that meant something to me and I had to have it. I do this all with a budget in mind. I have yet to buy a kettle for more than $50 and felt that one hit my budget harshly. The whale was going to hit my budget also after paying $25 for the kettle then a crap load for shipping and then sending a nice card and gift card to my agent. But I was not willing to put up more than $150 for the whole shabang. I have never told a seller the words rare, discontinued, collectable or asked about stamping or particulars. I believe in a poker face and not showing my hand. I deal with collectables on a lot of different items and I deal that way with people who know what they have. I always go for the cheapest I can get it possible. Never over bid try to reason and bargain. Last night in picked up an easterner pat pending for very very cheap. Something to be said about subtlety.
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I'm with you I'm torn, I guess if it was something I felt I had to have, but then if it was that rare I'm sure if it was that rare I would prob be out bid my pockets aren't that deep. Post pics of that pat pend when you get a chance
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I will tell you this. I really had no intention of paying that much for a grill. To be honest, if it wasn't posted here, I would've never had seen it. The seller had no idea what he had until today. Within minutes of the original post, this guys phone blows up with WKC members calling him. By the time I got to him, he was offered more than $200, but with the idea of cash in hand, he went for $125. It was only after someone called him again and told him it was worth much more, and proceeded to offer more. It was at this point, the gloves were off, and I didn't give a shit, that grill was gonna be mine. Clearly there was no WKC utopia going on when someone is letting the seller know he's getting ripped off.
Brian, I think it's gonna be a free for all going forward...
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Brian the pat pend I posted a few pics of in the off topic section. I had asked earlier in the week about cold calling on it.
I wish I wasn't torn on this matter at hand but I am. When getting into bbq/webers in general my family, friends and girlfriend thought it to be good. They thought it good cause it would dirvert me from other hobbies/collections that have took large quantities of my time and life and even larger sums of my pocket book and also something that I wouldn't become a fanatic about and just enjoy.
Right now (I know when I clam down a bit I will feel differently) I feel as though to get some really cool kettles I need to put all hobbies on hold for this hobby which would free up large sums of money to play with. <----- I don't want to do this and feel as though what I have in my collection of kettles is good and that maybe might just be for the best to take a break from it to not become a fanatic about it. I don't know what to say about rules or common respect here as I ama pretty new member here and feel as a whole everyone says this is what rthey believe but many ate not practicing what they say they follow. As far as the trading post goes I think it is fun to go there and check things out. I am starting to believe some way to limit access to it would be good but at the same time how would you go about it fairly.In the long of it aall, it is probably best to decide going into this hobby where you will put yourself ..... are you going to be a small collector, are you looking for a few nice cookers or just that one gotta have it, or the one who dies with the most toys wins person. I hope there is no one on here of the last one.
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I just can't see under cutting another persons deal. I had a Hasty Bake that the seller told me I was second or third in line for and he then asked if I would give more than the price he'd agreed to sell it to the first guy for. That just shut me down, totally lost interest. If I was staring at a mint Westerner I guess I could change my mind but I think it would bother me in the future. My favorite grills all have a story and I just can't imagine looking at one and thinking "that's the one I undercut somebody on" and enjoying it as much.
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I just can't see under cutting another persons deal. I had a Hasty Bake that the seller told me I was second or third in line for and he then asked if I would give more than the price he'd agreed to sell it to the first guy for. That just shut me down, totally lost interest. If I was staring at a mint Westerner I guess I could change my mind but I think it would bother me in the future. My favorite grills all have a story and I just can't imagine looking at one and thinking "that's the one I undercut somebody on" and enjoying it as much.
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Here Here! Wise words Eastex, and good to hear from you. ;)
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Brian the pat pend I posted a few pics of in the off topic section. I had asked earlier in the week about cold calling on it.
I wish I wasn't torn on this matter at hand but I am. When getting into bbq/webers in general my family, friends and girlfriend thought it to be good. They thought it good cause it would dirvert me from other hobbies/collections that have took large quantities of my time and life and even larger sums of my pocket book and also something that I wouldn't become a fanatic about and just enjoy.
Right now (I know when I clam down a bit I will feel differently) I feel as though to get some really cool kettles I need to put all hobbies on hold for this hobby which would free up large sums of money to play with. <----- I don't want to do this and feel as though what I have in my collection of kettles is good and that maybe might just be for the best to take a break from it to not become a fanatic about it. I don't know what to say about rules or common respect here as I ama pretty new member here and feel as a whole everyone says this is what rthey believe but many ate not practicing what they say they follow. As far as the trading post goes I think it is fun to go there and check things out. I am starting to believe some way to limit access to it would be good but at the same time how would you go about it fairly.In the long of it aall, it is probably best to decide going into this hobby where you will put yourself ..... are you going to be a small collector, are you looking for a few nice cookers or just that one gotta have it, or the one who dies with the most toys wins person. I hope there is no one on here of the last one.
Mikey,
Sorry to hear that you are torn, and I too, took up this hobby in lieu of more expensive ones. Much cheaper than collecting cars and motorcycles, and they take up less room. I think for the most part, the folks around here really do look out for one another and understand the grillfella mentality. However, as passionate collectors of something, we also realize that there are grills/grails all over the world. Unfortunately there are only so many white whales, speckled joes, glen-blue 22s, and red 26ers to go around. I've bought and sold over 20 grills in the past year. During that time, I've scored a bunch of cool grills, and didn't spend more than $50 on a single kettle...until today. I don't believe I would've even seen the grill unless it was for this club, so I cannot fault anyone here for wanting a rare grill, nor am I surprised what people will do. We cannot help it. It's in our competitive nature. It would suck if you no longer wanted to be a part of this because you think it'll become too expensive to collect. You are a tremendous part of the community, regardless of how many or what grills you have....
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My personal opinion: Release the hounds.
By trying to prop up this false grill economy by artificially lowering the market value of these grills through esprit de corps seems like it is more likely just causing friction and hurt feelings whereas letting the free market value determine the true price of these grills would be fairer to sellers and even the playing field for everyone.
WKC can still have an esprit de corps though. If a Cado popped up in my area and somebody posted it in the Trading section, I could post on there, "hey guys, I already agreed to pick up this grill after work, please don't contact", and we could all be happy. Not that it would stop the lurkers in that case, but it doesn't stop the lurkers now either.
But in the case this afternoon, that grill had been up for almost a full week, no one local had been on it, so personally, I have no qualms with what happened, when someone from another state offered $300 or whatever it was. The market dictated a much fairer price for the seller and in the end the buyer got a cool old grill. Now, if someone else out of state or non-WKC member would've got it, I can agree, we would all be pretty miffed, but c'est la vie. Life ain't fair and cash is king.
A Weber utopia would be awesome and I would love it, but I think the definition of utopia sums it up succinctly: "an imaginary place in which the government, laws, and social conditions are perfect."
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Good thread.
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I'm glad I waited this one out, everyone brings up good points :)
It's important to realize that in the BIG PICTURE, there are TWO moving trains.
Trian #1 is the overall, abstract idea that Weber kettles are collectible. This train was moving before the WKC started and would still be moving with or without the WKC
Train #2 is the WKC. Our site and community is growing like crazy. It would be ignorant to state that the WKC doesn't have a STRONG influence over Train #1. But it would be equally ignorant to think that the WKC has complete control over it (or that the two are one in the same.
What i'm saying is - the supply and demand of old and vintage Webers ("Weber Kettle Gold Rush") is going to happen no matter what we here at the WKC.
Camaraderie is great and is the heart of the community. I adore every ounce of it and every effort people put into maintaining it. But this mutual respect and friendship is simply an etiquette of our virtual society - a "Weberquette" if you will... It's great to have, but be aware that there will be people without it, and scenarios that convince people to ignore it.
A few days ago an old gray 26" popped up in san diego. I want it, but I alerted Jamesnomore to it since it's in his hood. If he takes it, awesome. If not, maybe he'll pick it up for me. I like James and I think it's a cool thing to do as a friend and GrillFella.
BUT - if that grill had been a 26" westerner, that motherbitch would be in my garage and I wouldn't have mentioned it until I had it.
I'm reluctant to say, "release the hounds" - because it's simply not an ON of OFF status.
I think rarity and desire play a big part. If a Georges original BBQ Kettle pops up somewhere on craigslist for 25 bucks - all bets are off and I'm going for it with as much as I can afford
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Hey Max don't forget that new in the box GA you scored. That seller stuck to the old CL code that he accepted the very first offer he got. I would bet if he hadn't you wouldn't have got that bad boy for $20. You would have had the hounds released on you. You would have been bummed if someone offered $75 on that when you could have had it for $20....
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Troy on one had some of what your saying is true, but the reality is that WE have driven this sky high. Before the WKC I could get pretty much anything I wanted with no issue...now it's a real dog fight to find stuff. Also You illustrating exactly my thoughts that if there's something someone wants then all bets are off, so why hold to any etiquette at any time. You yourself said as much in regards to profit, if you make $5 or $500 profit, profit is profit. So why then do we pick and choose when to be nice? Only if it's really something I"m not excited about? In regards to releasing the hounds, There is a certain member here that took a lot of heat this summer for doing what your suggesting on collectible things, who held off on this very grill and may have lost it because he was chastised and warned against this kind of thing. So he left it to the locals, did what he was told. If he was released to do as he wants, it would be his.....So that's the whole release the hounds....if it's game on for things we really want then are all bets off? If it's something he really wants, just like you would want a Westerner are all those motherbitches his to gather, if he really want's them??
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Troy on one had some of what your saying is true, but the reality is that WE have driven this sky high. Before the WKC I could get pretty much anything I wanted with no issue...now it's a real dog fight to find stuff. Also You illustrating exactly my thoughts that if there's something someone wants then all bets are off, so why hold to any etiquette at any time. You yourself said as much in regards to profit, if you make $5 or $500 profit, profit is profit. So why then do we pick and choose when to be nice? Only if it's really something I"m not excited about? In regards to releasing the hounds, There is a certain member here that took a lot of heat this summer for doing what your suggesting on collectible things, who held off on this very grill and may have lost it because he was chastised and warned against this kind of thing. So he left it to the locals, did what he was told. If he was released to do as he wants, it would be his.....So that's the whole release the hounds....if it's game on for things we really want then are all bets off? If it's something he really wants, just like you would want a Westerner are all those motherbitches his to gather, if he really want's them??
You have clearly put a lot of thought into this and are reacting based on logic rather than emotion. Thank you for that.
I understand your reasoning and questioning the reason for etiquette if there's always a chance that it won't be honored. I have thoughts for a response - but I don't have the wisdom or communication skills to put it into words :(
It's like the philosophy of good vs evil where it's not really a battle, but a give and take. One can't exist without the other.
The WKC needs the etiquette. The network of friendships. The friendly trades. The sacrifices of grails, parts, and profits. We, as humans, need it too. None of us are here JUST to grow our stables (at least I hope not)
Society is complicated. Even lurkers are "part of the community." Hell, I lurked at TVWBB for YEARS. Literally, 5 or 6 YEARS before joining.
Like everything in life, it's not black or white. You can go 5 mph over the speed limit everyday and still call the guy doing 110 in a 55 an F'in maniac. It doesn't boil down to a critical line based on a decided rule (speed limit) - it's based on human judgement, and every human has different judgement.
I wouldn't step on anyone's toes for any grill that I've ever seen. It would literally take a red ranch, a westerner, or an original for me to let the dogs out (WOO.. WOO WOO WOO).
I can't expect EVERYONE to have the same judgement. And I can't expect everyone to NOT judge me when I DO let the dogs out.
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Hey Max don't forget that new in the box GA you scored. That seller stuck to the old CL code that he accepted the very first offer he got. I would bet if he hadn't you wouldn't have got that bad boy for $20. You would have had the hounds released on you. You would have been bummed if someone offered $75 on that when you could have had it for $20....
Hmm. If in my original post in this thread, you thought that I was advocating people making higher offers after a sale price has been determined between a seller and buyer, than that is a mistake and I apologize for not being clearer.
I thought this thread was more about the etiquette of going after kettles in other states or regions than your own. I prefer to see all grail kettles stay in the WKC, but whether or not all of us want to continue the "my turf" etiquette, recent history has shown that some do not. That's why I feel it's better to just let the free market determine prices and what kettle goes where. We can all continue to support each other with spare parts, trading grills, being agents, etc. That's what I love about the WKC.
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Thank you Brian for starting this thread. It is MUCH needed.
I have a lot to say, some of which has already been touched upon, some of it hasn't. I'll try and word it best as possible. I've talked to some of you privately about this as well.
As Brian mentioned, as early as even 1.5 to 2 years ago, finding unusual and different kettles wasn't tough. I think this site has grown A LOT, and opened the eyes to MANY people that "hey, there are Webers out there other than the common black grill?!" "I'd love one of those on my patio, that would look so cool!" Look at how fast we are growing as a site...don't forget the unregistered people too...the LURKERS! LOL There are a TON of them. All these people are interested too...but have chose not to join. They are sniping grills too. Look at the White Whale that just listed. It was out there for a week! Then as soon as it posts here, the seller gets bombarded and has stars in their eyes. This site has certainly influenced the price of rare and colored Webers...FOR SURE. Can we really stop it? Probably not. Can we try and control it? Maybe...BUT, when it comes to true Grails that pop up, I don't think so. As Troy mentioned, it comes down to supply and demand. There are only so many Grails left out there (one less as of yesterday), and a fast growing community that WANT WANT WANT these grills. I think its impossible for any etiquette to be put in place once one of these grills shows up on Clist, Ebay, or any other public site. And as far as site camaraderie, sure that's all nice in theory, but far from realistic when the TRUE GRAIL pops up. I don't care what some say, what they preach, what they would like to see...ITS NOT GONNA HAPPEN, and we just saw another example of it with the White Whale and the attention it got. As Brian said, its gonna happen and the hounds will be released.
Here's another question for you all, so if you found yourself a TRUE GRAIL...in really nice shape would you cook on it? I've read a few people say its a grill, they are meant to cook on, or "I don't care for lookers", well...if you had other cooker grills and found a sweet Grail...would you use it? Or would you admire it and just use your everyday cookers? Would you really NEED to cook on the Grail? I cook on my Sequoia, and its in NICE condition, but I also have other more common colored grills I cook on too.
Now, this may be best for another thread, but my Wooddale will eventually be for sale. There are those that would consider this a GRAIL for themselves and I know a lot of people would like this grill. I spoke to a handful of you privately about this as well. I'd would like to see it go to a club member, but of course I will have a minimum in mind (less than I know it would fetch on Ebay) I would accept. I'd like to avoid Ebay for now. I took a little bit of grief from a member for listing it there. They had the right intentions, but not realistic ones. The speckled offset handle Smokey isn't your run of the mill grill you see everyday now.
Now...what is the best method for me to do this with the club? I saw the thread Lawrence post for the "Grail Fella" and maybe that's an idea. I want to offer this grill eventually, but how do I avoid :
1) coming across as greedy
2) disappointed members that would really like this grill, but don't get it (its only one grill!) :)
Ultimately I envision it happening as PMs coming to me. Naturally someone will bid more than someone else. How is this ultimately any different that Ebay? It will no doubt come down to money, and I will say it again, I don't want to come across as greedy. Is there another solution? This is a Wooddale in amazing condition, not a common red grill from the 90's. Input is always welcome.
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Jeff, you bring up some really great points. I agree that as people score these grails, the issue of what to do with them comes up. The grill I scored yesterday is absolutely beautiful and I've never seen a grill this old in such good shape. I've slept on it (not the grill) and I'm still not sure what I want to do with it. I have mixed feelings about cooking on it. Plus there are folks here that would like it as well. Maybe for me, I would want another member to have it, but the big question is how to do that fairly without it becoming a swinging dick contest. It was awesome to see your speckled joe go for what it did, and it does come with some benefits. All of you that have rare grills, your collection just increased in value, but all of us that are looking for one, that search became a little more difficult and expensive. That's what happens with collecting anything!
I was thinking about what would be the most fair for the WKC members if we wanted to keep it in the family. What if the seller of the grill determined their asking price beforehand and then had a lottery system from interested buyers to pull from? For example, let's say I wanted to unload the white whale. With the price of the grill, gas and tolls, I laid out about $250. To make it worth my while, I'd probably want at least $300. What if I put it out there that anyone interested in paying $300 for the grill, let me know, I will put their name in a hat and draw it on a certain date? The winner gets to purchase the grill. Of course determining the price is more difficult because you're trying to anticipate a market for an item that could potentially explode on ebay. This way may be an alternative to letting the dogs out.
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with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it. Do you just stick to your original price you put forth? Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not. Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it? Not likely, but you never know. I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine. Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color. There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it! Its a super cool grill. Do you have space for it? Lots of things to think about! :) You're in a nice position either way.
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1) Well Brian, IMO, you got your answer.
2) Can I get the list of all official graills?
3) Yes, I would cook on them, at least a few times, (unless doing so would immediately damage them).
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So many valid points on this thread. I think we have created our own monster. The market place for these collectable grills IMO is peaking. Some will be out many dollars for a prized trophy. It is a hobby we all share at this point. Personally, there is know grill that I would pay over $100, just me. A hobby is not an investment. Does the White Whale cook any better than an MT or OTG? Most of mine finds are $25 finds. It can't even be shipped to another member for that, now the investment has doubled to another party. I would hope a member would PM me or an Advisor for a head up on a local add that may have been missed.
Example: How many are holding the bag on collectable cards? Pok-E-man? It was a fad and many lost $'s I think we will
see this happen on Weber Grills at some point. Its not like investing in stocks, at least if you suffer a loss, it is a tax deduction...
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Thanks Jeff,
I keep hearing that ultimately it comes down to money and that's reality. I don't believe that it has to or that it should. I would start with the members that you know have been looking for a Wood Dale by PMing them or just asking people to PM you. Have a number in mind that you think would be a fair for it based on what you paid and the time spent on it. My guess is that you would be around $100 right now. I understand that it's a wood dale and they are rare, but keeping in mind they are usually picked up for well under $100. I spoke with a guy the other day that picked up a light blue one for $25. The White Whale just went for $225, but it was technically a colored one and originally $25. That leaves $200 being a more than fair asking price, and remember the buyer will likely have to pay for shipping at another $50. You made a great profit, helped a person to get a desirable grill and kept it here. Keep in mind you can still do trades and partial trades as well.
Now the reality is that you will probably get upwards of $300 on Ebay, but who knows where it will wind up? It might or might not be here with the bretheren. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I made a large profit on ebay from one of our members. I would be forced to give some back, but that's me. I don't consider dealing in rare grills as a member of a rare grill site to be a place to look for real profits. Just flip regular run of the mill grills on CL and nobody will care. The markets great in your area.
I know you have a very large rare collection and that there is a possibility that one day you may be approached by a serious buyer with a large amount of money and a purpose like a restaurant or museum. I think you would be cheered on for a deal like that. For example, Golly just made a great deal with Weber Oz.
Also keep in mind that you made it clear to me that you felt I paid too much for my NIB Red SJ a few years back, that leads me to believe that you would have to feel the black Speckled SJ also went for too much. The profit was large, no doubt and the condition wasn't good. Even considering it's a few years later it would never catch up to the red that I recently resold to a member for about the same as the black speckled. I know it made for great advertising, but I think the creative minds here could think of other ways to raise interest.
No, it isn't reality that it has to come down to the deepest pockets. I'm a bigger fan of helping make it possible for a great Dad to get it, or a person that lives in a remote area where they never find these grills.
Anyways, that's more likely that way I go about things and see them.
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Example: How many are holding the bag on collectable cards? Pok-E-man? It was a fad and many lost $'s I think we will
see this happen on Weber Grills at some point. Its not like investing in stocks, at least if you suffer a loss, it is a tax deduction...
This is so true. Hopefully Webers are more like baseball cards, than pok-e-mon cards or beabie babies. That brings up another thought. What if we turned the name list that Max started into a sort of pricing catalog? Similar to the way baseball cards are? That way there can be some consensus over pricing and it'll keep things reasonable.
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with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it. Do you just stick to your original price you put forth? Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not. Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it? Not likely, but you never know. I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine. Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color. There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it! Its a super cool grill. Do you have space for it? Lots of things to think about! :) You're in a nice position either way.
Yes, you stick to your original price. I have also had grills where I felt it was worth more, but couldn't get it from the people I wanted to see get it and they really wanted it. Sometime the shipping hurts the deal, so I have to compromise even more to see them have it. It might mean taking payments or lowering the price because you know it would be sweet to see in their collection. I love helping build other GFA's collections. :)
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No Shaun,
I never said you paid too much for that red Smokey on Ebay. I just didn't want to pay what you were asking for it when you approached me on it. I think you made a good deal by asking for the seller to do a BIN and end the auction. I think that Red Smokey would have sold for far more than you paid for it.
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2) Can I get the list of all official graills?
3) Yes, I would cook on them, at least a few times, (unless doing so would immediately damage them).
G$ some grails we don't even know exist! That's what makes it fun. I totally agree with you on #3, except if it's a NIB. We all know what a weber cooks like so no use is messing up a nib grail kettle. My threshold for that is pretty high I would like to think though. I had no qualms cooking on my 14" wsm.
with this scenario, you may still have PMs coming to you with offers of more if other members determine you undervalued it. Do you just stick to your original price you put forth? Are you personally undervaluing your grill? Maybe, maybe not. Do you risk seeing it end up on Ebay anyways after you sell it? Not likely, but you never know. I guess if you are fine with letting it go to the price you determined, that's fine. Keep in mind, it is a Wooddale of color. There will be lots of interest in it.
On the other hand, you could still keep it! Its a super cool grill. Do you have space for it? Lots of things to think about! :) You're in a nice position either way.
Yes, if you decide to lottery your grill for a WKC price then you are probably undervaluing it for personal reasons. That's cool too. We shouldn't judge each other for going through other channels like eBay. Nor should we judge those who are willing to spend $$ on a desirable grill.
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Thanks Jeff, but what do you think about my plan for selling hard to come by grills? Does it sound fair? reasonable?
By the way, I have been wondering if you bought that light blue Imperial that was up for one hour on ebay using the same method I used to get the red sj? ???
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Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider. Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks. It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already. It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this. This grill is in super condition except the ash pan as most of you know. Its a survivor grill for sure.
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Example: How many are holding the bag on collectable cards? Pok-E-man? It was a fad and many lost $'s I think we will
see this happen on Weber Grills at some point. Its not like investing in stocks, at least if you suffer a loss, it is a tax deduction...
I think if the market or price ever falls on old weber grills I have not lost any money.
As a wise man has on here for his signature line: My weber it's a memory maker, not a money maker!
Words to live by. Yes the price of these will go up as less and less rare ones are for sale ... you determine how much you want to pay, but no matter what you will make fond memories with and of these kettles and memories my friends are priceless and last forever. Hell I made a memory yesterday with a kettle I don't even own "the white whale" and it is a good memory. I felt so invigorated going after it and it made a great story to tell to someone else about how I once went weber whale hunting! :o ;D
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Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider. Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks. It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already. It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this.
So, it is "OK" to auction a grill, but "Not OK" to set a price and decide to sell to a specific person, because by auctioning you know the price is "right"? Interesting perspective.
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Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider. Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks. It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already. It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this. This grill is in super condition except the ash pan as most of you know. Its a survivor grill for sure.
I get offers like that to and it's not a problem. Like I said decide what a reasonable profit is and you choose the person you want to sell it to. The others will understand. I still think my suggestion of $200 should make you very happy, a nice profit and make the buyer happy. There isn't any devalue, contrary to what others say I believe we have the strongest hand in controlling this market. Like others have pointed out the prices may drop one day. I would like to be able to say that my deals were fair then and after the drop.
So you did get that Imperial! ;D
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Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider. Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks. It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already. It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this.
So, it is "OK" to auction a grill, but "Not OK" to set a price and decide to sell to a specific person, because by auctioning you know the price is "right"? Interesting perspective.
That's not my intention to make sure "the price is right"
As stated many times, I want to be fair and let all interested parties (are there will be multiple people interested) have a shot at this grill. If I say 100 bucks for the Wooddale (for example), I know for a fact I will have multiple people wanting it. What would YOU do in that case G$?
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G$ some grails we don't even know exist! That's what makes it fun.
Gumm, you know exactly what my point is.... Part of this discussion is, to be blunt, how do we think we should behave during graill scenarios. Before we even get there, I doubt we will agree on what graills are.
I totally agree with you on #3, except if it's a NIB. We all know what a weber cooks like so no use is messing up a nib grail kettle. My threshold for that is pretty high I would like to think though. I had no qualms cooking on my 14" wsm.
I hear that. Except ....I sort of doubt I would go after NIB products. I certainly would not go after them with the intention of leaving them in the box! Plus, maybe I am crazy, but I don't think they all cook the same. I like to achieve some sort of Henosis with each of them, in their own mystical way.
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Yes Shaun,
Its certainly fair and another option to consider. Problem is, is that I've had a handful of offers for it already on when I got it that already were well north of 100 bucks. It wouldn't be fair to take 100 from one specific person, when others have expressed serious interest already. It still brings me back to the original problem of multiple people wanting this grill and how to price it knowing this.
So, it is "OK" to auction a grill, but "Not OK" to set a price and decide to sell to a specific person, because by auctioning you know the price is "right"? Interesting perspective.
That's not my intention to make sure "the price is right"
As stated many times, I want to be fair and let all interested parties (are there will be multiple people interested) have a shot at this grill. If I say 100 bucks for the Wooddale (for example), I know for a fact I will have multiple people wanting it. What would YOU do in that case G$?
This is the problem I know ultimately anyone with a Grail to sell most likely will run into. There is no one correct way to handle it, and you will never make everybody happy with one solution. This is only part of the reason the speckled Smokey went on Ebay.
We can use a similar and current example happening right now to see what another person would do. Harris just acquired a very nice lime. While its not a Wooddale, and not AS hard to come across, its IS very hard to find this color in the condition that he has found. He already has had multiple requests of people that would like to have it should he part with it. What will Harris do? Harris...please chime in with your opinion and what you are going to do should you let this grill go.
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That's not my intention to make sure "the price is right"
As stated many times, I want to be fair and let all interested parties (are there will be multiple people interested) have a shot at this grill. If I say 100 bucks for the Wooddale (for example), I know for a fact I will have multiple people wanting it. What would YOU do in that case G$?
It's a fair question Jeff. And I am not trying to evade it when I say, "I'm not sure what I would do!"
BUT,
1) You mention fairness. Is it more fair to let the person that can and will simply pay more have it? (I dunno!)
2) Is it most fair to have the FIRST person that contacted you have a crack? (I dunno!)
3) Is it most fair to let the person that has been looking for it the LONGEST take it. (I dunno!)
4) Is it most fair to have the person that will get the most personal joy from it have it (I dunno!)
Point being, in my opinion, you picking who to sell it to, and for what price, and when, and why, may very well be JUST AS FAIR as making sure "all interested parties have a shot at it".
Let me give you an entirely made up example. Lets say I wanted that wood dale because when my folks got married in 1963 or whatever the first thing they bought was a weber grill just like it. AND I am really looking for a great gift for their 50th wedding anniversary. They would get a kick out of that for sure. Wouldn't a cool story like that make you re think giving "all interested parties a shot at it". Is that unfair?
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Nope...not unfair, and it would be a cool story to have the Wooddale go to them in that example. But, in this case, I am being asked to decide who's "story or scenario" is more important, sentimental, you pick your adjective here. I would hate to say well...G$'s grandparents situation is more important than "John's" story of growing up with his father cooking lunch at the cabin on the old Weber Wooddale grill.
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Jeff to answer your "what would I do" question, I only very slightly slightly tongue in cheekly reply:
I heard on the news (http://www.npr.org/2013/10/25/240751201/forget-the-lottery-you-have-better-odds-of-winning-this-picasso) that some place is having a lottery for a Picasso. The tickets are like 130 bucks, which is of course ridiculously cheap, They are selling 50,000 tickets. So, they will make their 6 million bucks regardless. Maybe that is the 'most fair'! Everyone does have a shot!
Win a wood dale for 5 bucks!
I seriously would consider that!
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Hmmmmm....very interesting! LOL
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Thanks Jeff, but what do you think about my plan for selling hard to come by grills? Does it sound fair? reasonable?
By the way, I have been wondering if you bought that light blue Imperial that was up for one hour on ebay using the same method I used to get the red sj? ???
Yes and Yes
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Nope...not unfair, and it would be a cool story to have the Wooddale go to them in that example. But, in this case, I am being asked to decide who's "story or scenario" is more important, sentimental, you pick your adjective here. I would hate to say well...G$'s grandparents situation is more important than "John's" story of growing up with his father cooking lunch at the cabin on the old Weber Wooddale grill.
I don't think we need to go by stories in general. The truth is there are only a few members on this site that would be willing to even pay the $200 for that wood dale. I bet you could count them on one hand, but they have their reasons for wanting it. Some of them have great collections and would like to enhance them. Just choose the best fit.
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Nope...not unfair, and it would be a cool story to have the Wooddale go to them in that example. But, in this case, I am being asked to decide who's "story or scenario" is more important, sentimental, you pick your adjective here. I would hate to say well...G$'s grandparents situation is more important than "John's" story of growing up with his father cooking lunch at the cabin on the old Weber Wooddale grill.
"John" didn't even have a Weber! It was a kingsford knock off! :P
And fwiw, If you like "John's" story better, who am I to argue?
I guess my point is, or really, the point of the thread is, that different people have different goals, and different ways to achieve them. This WKC community brings us together as kettle-heads, but the reality is, those different goals and methods truly are "at odds" with one another sometimes. The good news is we can still discuss it openly and respectfully. Like I said above...I think Brian got his answer.
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Point being, in my opinion, you picking who to sell it to, and for what price, and when, and why, may very well be JUST AS FAIR as making sure "all interested parties have a shot at it".
Let me give you an entirely made up example. Lets say I wanted that wood dale because when my folks got married in 1963 or whatever the first thing they bought was a weber grill just like it. AND I am really looking for a great gift for their 50th wedding anniversary. They would get a kick out of that for sure. Wouldn't a cool story like that make you re think giving "all interested parties a shot at it". Is that unfair?
I would be most inclined to sell the grill to the person with the scenario you mention above G$, regardless of who else wanted it...not sure if its "fair", but it would definitely seem right...IMO
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This is the problem I know ultimately anyone with a Grail to sell most likely will run into. There is no one correct way to handle it, and you will never make everybody happy with one solution. This is only part of the reason the speckled Smokey went on Ebay.
We can use a similar and current example happening right now to see what another person would do. Harris just acquired a very nice lime. While its not a Wooddale, and not AS hard to come across, its IS very hard to find this color in the condition that he has found. He already has had multiple requests of people that would like to have it should he part with it. What will Harris do? Harris...please chime in with your opinion and what you are going to do should you let this grill go.
The reason the speckled smokey went on ebay was to make the biggest profit possible and drive traffic here by putting it on the front page. It was posted under your wifes name and you emailed me admitting that I found you out. Well actually it was Lawrence who figured it out and told me. How about coming clean about the light blue Imperial you just bought on ebay now, or does it need to be surprise front page news? Just tell the truth and take your victory lap after you get it. It can still go on the front page, there would be nothing wrong with that.
What will Harris do? We already know, Harris has publicly passed wood dales and other rare grills to members here and will do the same with that lime if he decides to part with it. You won't see it on ebay, he knows what to do with them.
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Not like I have to come clean about anything...it was just an Ebay acquisition and I happened to be in the right place at the right time.
That grill has been a Grail for me for some time now. Before this site was around, back to the old site, and even when you had your old Imperial Shaun.
I saw the grill, emailed the seller if they would consider a BIN...no initial offer even made. I was lucky enough they contacted me back.
No victory lap necessary or front page news necessary. Any of you that know me know I collect as much as I grill. It was an important grill left on my list, I was lucky enough to get it.
I know you don't care to see pics Shaun since you indicated it on a previous post, but I'm happy to share with others if they have interest. The grill was better than advertised.
And Shaun, as far as you saying you can probably count the number of people on one hand that would spend more than 200 on a grill, you're pretty low in your estimate. I know that for a fact. Many people have their special trigger points...its just a matter of when their "special" grill comes along.
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Not like I have to come clean about anything...it was just an Ebay acquisition and I happened to be in the right place at the right time.
That grill has been a Grail for me for some time now. Before this site was around, back to the old site, and even when you had your old Imperial Shaun.
I saw the grill, emailed the seller if they would consider a BIN...no initial offer even made. I was lucky enough they contacted me back.
No victory lap necessary or front page news necessary. Any of you that know me know I collect as much as I grill. It was an important grill left on my list, I was lucky enough to get it.
I know you don't care to see pics Shaun since you indicated it on a previous post, but I'm happy to share with others if they have interest. The grill was better than advertised.
And Shaun, as far as you saying you can probably count the number of people on one hand that would spend more than 200 on a grill, you're pretty low in your estimate. I know that for a fact. Many people have their special trigger points...its just a matter of when their "special" grill comes along.
Then why didn't you just come out and admit it in the first place? It's like that speckled sj all over again! I'm glad you got it and there was no foul on contacting the seller. I know you have always wanted one. Congratulations!
And Shaun, as far as you saying you can probably count the number of people on one hand that would spend more than 200 on a grill, you're pretty low in your estimate. I know that for a fact. Many people have their special trigger points...its just a matter of when their "special" grill comes along.
I'm referring to your wood dale and I challenge you to name more than five members that are willing to pay over $200 for it and actually see that deal through. Maybe you can? I think it would break $300 on ebay, why not just put it there then? ???
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It's not that hard to figure out who gets grills and who doesn't....I have dealt with people here who would be on a short list. Some people are serious and I know this and have expressed interest in certain grills.....there are those who are serious and those who aren't....I would go to the serious one first and go from there....
As far as Grails, that is something different to everyone...some may want this and some may want that...really hard to tell what is something someone really wants.
I guess at the end of the day some of the more common things will be picked up and traded and some will be held on to as a grail....Personally I collect things and trade up to get something I really want...I believe at this point it is a game for those who are lucky or loaded....
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Oh and the issue of cooking on a grail....I have some things that are so nice, I just won't cook on them. There is no reason...I have a bunch of new stuff I cook on, but there is a bunch of stuff that I have that's old, and I do pull it out and cook on it....it's always fun to fire up an oldie and cook on it....
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As far as listing the smokey on ebay...is it wrong to want anonymity? I chose not say anything initially...after the thread got going, I thought ultimately it was just better to say it was me as there were other members that knew. just my personal decision. That's all. My choice not to say something about the Imperial was the same. Just my choice. I would've said something at some point, but since you asked, I said it. Not much more to it than that.
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Regarding the lime grill, yes it is very nice. I don't know how long I will keep it (6 months, 1 year, etc.). When the time comes to move it, I will probably look for a trade (depending on my interests at that time). :)
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As far as listing the smokey on ebay...is it wrong to want anonymity? I chose not say anything initially...after the thread got going, I thought ultimately it was just better to say it was me as there were other members that knew. just my personal decision. That's all. My choice not to say something about the Imperial was the same. Just my choice. I would've said something at some point, but since you asked, I said it. Not much more to it than that.
Yes it is wrong. When you are a member of a tight knit group where others know you and deal with you, especially as an advisor we should always be forthcoming about these things. It was upsetting when I thought I was going to have to bid on ebay to buy a fellow members grill and know I wasn't the only one who felt betrayed. Just the fact it was also under another name added insult to injury. I don't even care that I was one of the first to see it, I didn't expect to win it because it was ebay and priced usually go higher than I would be willing to pay there. It was a real let down because I would like to find a black speckled one day. By the way, don't act like you didn't know it would go for $200. ::)
On the Imperial, I wasn't the only one who was asking you about it. Why was it like pulling teeth to get an answer? That's lying and sets a bad example. I knew you had it when you didn't reply to the thread on it.
The Advisors do not make up the WKC, the Members make up the WKC, without all of them this site would not survive.
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this thread has some good discussions going on
however, leave accusations out of it.
no one has done anything wrong and I am NOT going to allow another bullshit smear campaign happen.
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Thanks Troy, I agree it was a good discussion. If you decide to lock this right now would probably be a good time. :)
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I'd like to see how more people feel and what other ideas are out there :)
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As far as listing the smokey on ebay...is it wrong to want anonymity? I chose not say anything initially...after the thread got going, I thought ultimately it was just better to say it was me as there were other members that knew. just my personal decision. That's all. My choice not to say something about the Imperial was the same. Just my choice. I would've said something at some point, but since you asked, I said it. Not much more to it than that.
Yes it is wrong. When you are a member of a tight knit group where others know you and deal with you, especially as an advisor we should always be forthcoming about these things. It was upsetting when I thought I was going to have to bid on ebay to buy a fellow members grill. Just the fact it was also under another name added insult to injury. I don't even care that I was one of the first to see it, I didn't expect to win it because it was ebay and priced usually go higher than I would be willing to pay there. It was a real let down because I would like to find a black speckled one day. By the way, don't act like you didn't know it would go for $200. ::)
On the Imperial, I wasn't the only one who was asking you about it. Why was it like pulling teeth to get an answer? That's lying and sets a bad example. I knew you had it when you didn't reply to the thread on it.
Number 1!
I'm sorry this thread is getting muddied up with a difference of opinions
Number2!
I'm adding insult to injury because I listed the Smokey under my wife's account??? For your info Shaun, I don't even have my own account and am not about to create one to sell a grill. BTW...what's your injury?? I've sold numerous items on Ebay not even related to Weber. I have a perfect rating and have no reason to create a new account just for this.
When you first found this grill, you emailed me personally behind the scenes, asked if it was mine, then asked me how much is it gonna take. I didn't even answer how much to you. You knew it was me then automatically took your hat out of the ring and said publically in the club to all other interested members, quote...I'm stepping aside, but I appreciate that all of you allowed me a chance. I think that really shows the camaraderie that I would like to see the site maintain. :) You got out because you found out I was selling it...not because of "camaraderie" strictly.
Number 3!
Don't forget one important thing...I was the owner of this said grill. I can chose to use whatever means I WANT TO ultimately to sell it. Thank you for your opinions on the "right" way to handle these things. I never knew you had all the right answers and there was no other way handle this situation. You know, you HAD an even better Smokey than this in RED with an offset handle. You really "wanted" that one too and said it wasn't going anywhere (yes I still have our email exchanges about it). Well you had it and still sold it. You say now you also "really want a speckled Smokey" Do you? For how long? There are a lot of things you've really wanted in the past, and even had members that were willing to go out there their way to get these grills for you, their time, their gas, their effort to pack them up and ship them. Only to not too far in the future to see these grills listed or traded to someone else shortly after you got them. I'm not naming names, but this is FACT. There are those that are disappointed in you for something that THOUGHT they were going out of their way for YOU...only to see them here and gone.
Number 4!
How I chose to disclose the Imperial is my decision and mine alone. It doesn't matter that you're upset how I chose to disclose it. And lying is bad example??? Please tell me where I lied Shaun? Is non-disclosure on your time frame a lie?
Number 5!
Please stop with your "holier than thou attitude" and "love fests" as of late on so many threads. You're not so perfect yourself, and many of us are guilty of not being perfect...myself included.
If you chose to stop commenting on any future threads of mine, I'm sorry you feel that way. Lets just agree to disagree here even though I have a feeling you're going to twist words to come off as "the good guy"
There are many that privately are questioning your agenda lately, and or motives. And lastly, why do you feel you are entitled to money or any trivial gains that this site generates? Yes, that's right, while this isn't public knowledge so to say...it IS documented. Troy does an amazing job keeping this site up and going in his "spare" time. I'm sure he puts money out every month out of his own pocket to keep it going. Why do you think he is experimenting with advertising on the site?
Number 6!
I'm sorry again for airing dirty laundry on a public thread, but enough is enough. Troy, please lock it if you feel the need.
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Well said Jeff. I've been following this thread, and others like it for some time. You are absolutely doing the right thing in every way. Kudos for making your position crystal clear for anyone who is having trouble making sense of what seems to me to be a simple case of personal choice. I myself make choices like you have (some related to kettles) every day, and choose to share only a portion of them with the club. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Keep doing what you are doing.
Marty
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I've heard enough number two, it's time to move on. :)
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Group HUG!
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What if we started a market within each town we live in?
That way the kettles stay local, there's no shipping and everyone's happy
Kinda like a farmers market
http://youtu.be/afY4v0y4fL4
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What if we started a market within each town we live in?
That way the kettles stay local, there's no shipping and everyone's happy
Kinda like a farmers market
http://youtu.be/afY4v0y4fL4
Is that Golly at the beginning with the set of grapes on his head? ;D
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What if we started a market within each town we live in?
That way the kettles stay local, there's no shipping and everyone's happy
Kinda like a farmers market
http://youtu.be/afY4v0y4fL4
Is that Golly at the beginning with the set of grapes on his head? ;D
i was trying to keep that as a secret from the wkc but it looks like the cat is out of the bag
ps im sorry for lying :o :P
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ihave an idea on how to solve the grail kettle ettiquette poaching or whatever its called
simple really
all rare grills MUST be shipped to OZ for authenticity before anyone can express interest in them
and jeff you are first on the list with the imperial and then you stephen with the limey :P :P
see that too easy, look no fighting over grill grails anymore
ps once grills are in oz all corespondence will be ignored
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As the sole member (so far) of the Nebraska chapter of the WKC, I've noticed the changes that have happened in the "market place' for these kettles just over the last year like everyone else. Do I like what is happening? No. Can I control it? No. Can all of us control it? Maybe but it is a process. We all have our methods and preferences for how to deal with grill sales. Full disclosure, my "preference" read "Craig's ideal world of unicorns and lollipops" is that the members of the WKC get first crack at a grill or grail that is being sold by a member here, then if no one bites or a deal can't be made or an agreement cant be reached, then of course try the open market (CL or Ebay). Now.......HAVING SAID THAT...... That is just MY personal preference. It is NOT law, it is NOT something I will measure a member's loyalty on if they choose to go open market first. After all, it is a free country (& God willing, hopefully will remain so during our lifetime) so anyone that makes a decision to sell a grill or grail or whatever, regardless of the method is the personal CHOICE of the seller. If it's a grill that I really want and if I ever see it on ebay , and if its from one of our own, of course I may contact the seller, see if they want to make a deal, if they decline and want the auction to run its course, then that is their decision. I will respect that decision, if it's something I want badly enough, I'd better bring my wallet's "A" game. However, I don't have that luxury most of the time. So I defer to my fellow members in the WKC who may have the means to get it and root for a fellow member to win and hope it stays in the club. At the end of the day, I don't think less of a fellow member just because they chose to put something on the public market. I may disagree with the method, but most importantly, at the end of the day, I still respect the person. After all, we are Grillfellas first! There's always another deal that can be made down the road>> I tell myself and that has happened. I've passed on several grills that I have wanted either because the timing wasn't right or I just couldn't close the deal at the time. Some of those grills (no the exact ones, but others like it) I have eventually gotten. Other times, several fellow members have been kind enough and patient enough to work with me down the road when the timing was right. Did they have to? Absolutely not! They could have moved on to the next person, but they were kind enough to work with me and for that I am truly & forever greatful! I hope to return the favor in the future. If they did move on to the next guy in line, I don't and would not hold it against them. It's their property to own, sell, move or hold as they see fit. All i'm saying is I have my opinion on the matter, you just read it, and what ever happens will happen. I say again, I am here for the purpose of talking about Weber kettles with like minded individuals. Studying the differences, stories, and history of this brand. Yes I am slowly building a collection, but it's at my personal pace. Some of us collect quicker than others and that's perfectly ok. Oh and I cook on most of mine, IMO that's what there meant for. Yes I reserve one as a looker only, but if someone else has 20 lookers and 4 cookers, that's their prerogative. I don't judge, I just perve. ;)
Thank You!
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Good lord, I leave to go enjoy some jack and bbq and the shit hits the fan! Just let things go and we can evolve as a site naturally. Spend less time trying to not be another site, just be our site!