Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Mods, Tables and Customs => Topic started by: ReanimatedRobot on August 16, 2020, 04:30:50 AM
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So I keep kicking the mini Ranch idea around my head... I would like to have a solid base for the 26er without dropping it into a Performer cart so that brings us to the crazy obsessive place I am now.
I know that one option is to purchase the Ranch legs directly from Weber (I have a Ranch so they would allow it) or replace for approximately $194 shipped at another online parts store. While I know this method works it has some disadvantages.
1.) Cost. I could purchase superior materials that would meet or be below this cost in my opinion.
2.) Seeing how the regular Ranch frame was built I really wasn't impressed and it comes with the bowl brackets that kind of look out of place and ruin a perfectly good storage space under the grill.
3.) The design depends on drilling into the porcelain bowl 8 times AND getting all of them level. It can be done, but that porcelain always seems indestructible until you drop a lid or the bowl tips over (go figure).
So here we are trying to come up with a no weld design because I don't readily have welding tools available and the ones I do have availability to are not set up for Stainless Steel. I would use 1 1/4" square tubing and as much stainless steel hardware as possible. Originally I thought about attaching all the necessary square bar by using corner brace brackets, but I think I may have come up with a better solution visually speaking. The plan would involve drilling a mounting hole on one side of a square tube, inserting a bolt INSIDE the tube, and having the threads be on the outside. Then inserting a tube connecting star nut of some sort inside the other piece of square tube. After that it would take some patience of inserting a wrench inside the tube with the bolt and holding it into place while you turn the whole tube with the star nut. I believe this should work, the only down side is I haven't found any tube connecting nut in stainless steel. It isn't the end of the world because I was planning on keeping the grill inside, but it would have been nice none the less. The other downside is it might get annoying towards the end of assembly.
It may be more secure to keep the cross bars in one piece, but I really dislike this possibility in the event that I wish to add a lower basket or shelf for storage at a later date. I was considering buying a small piece of threaded bar, drilling both sides of the one solid center piece, and then attempting a similar attachment as described above for the two half pieces. I may not be able to get it super tight, but I think I can get it solid enough. I would like to get a basket or shelf, but I will have to see what I can come up with at a later date.
As for securing it to the bowl I am considering buying some flat bar or sheet metal in a 1 1/4" band and wrapping it around the bowl of the grill. Once concern I have is thickness because while I know 1/8" would be solid as a tank I also know that SS can be a pain to bend and shape. My best idea for shaping it would be to make a wood jig and wrap it around while securing with screws until I get the desired shape. Then I could bend the ends out to touch together and use a bolt/nut to tighten around the bowl as needed. The bar would be secured at the lid bail holes, there would be notches for the front handle, and weight would sit on the underside rim of the bowl. The ends of the ring could tuck inside the square tube of one of the legs.
One question I have is there anything I should line around the ring to protect the side and under rim of the bowl that is heat tolerant?
I would secure this ring to the legs not by using bolts, but by cutting the top of the legs in a way where I could slide it into notches of the tube steel. As for the open holes of the legs I am toying around with either cutting them in a way where a square portion could be bent down to secure the ring or simply buying/fabricating some kind of leg caps.
As for the wheels I would look to use a SS axel to secure 8" Weber wheels. While I like the giant wheels on my current ranch I fear that they may be over doing it on a 26er but I could change my mind. I would also look to buy Stainless Steel casters in a similar or smaller size as I have on my ranch build.
At the need of it all I am actually not planning on painting it. I think I might try to polish/sand out any scratches and make it as shiny as I can and leave it. Why paint stainless steel that will chip when it already looks so damn good and is moisture resistant?
Thats the pian so far. I am not planning on starting this project for a minute so I figured putting it here might get a few nutcases like myself to come forward with ideas or words of advice. I might tag a few people eventually to pick their brains.
I ofcouse would documenting it all on here in case someone else wanted to do the same project. After all the finest form of grill flattery is someone else doing the same!
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If it’s anything like your Ranch custom job, I’m sure it’ll be awesome.
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As for securing it to the bowl I am considering buying some flat bar or sheet metal in a 1 1/4" band and wrapping it around the bowl of the grill. Once concern I have is thickness because while I know 1/8" would be solid as a tank I also know that SS can be a pain to bend and shape. My best idea for shaping it would be to make a wood jig and wrap it around while securing with screws until I get the desired shape. Then I could bend the ends out to touch together and use a bolt/nut to tighten around the bowl as needed. The bar would be secured at the lid bail holes, there would be notches for the front handle, and weight would sit on the underside rim of the bowl. The ends of the ring could tuck inside the square tube of one of the legs.
If you have access to a sheet metal roller bender, that would be ideal for shaping 1-1/4" wide band. I used our shop roller bender to make new 1/16" thick x 5/8" wide replacement charcoal grate hangers.
One question I have is there anything I should line around the ring to protect the side and under rim of the bowl that is heat tolerant?
You could use high temp fiberglass insulation sheets or strips.
https://www.mcmaster.com/fiberglass-insulation/fiberglass-fabric/
Sounds like a cool project.
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If you have access to a sheet metal roller bender, that would be ideal for shaping 1-1/4" wide band. I used our shop roller bender to make new 1/16" thick x 5/8" wide replacement charcoal grate hangers.
Unless my father in law has a roller I may only be left with two options. 1.) Go to a local fabricator and ask them to do it or 2.) Cut a wood circle a the approximate size, screw it to a table/plywood, and then wrap the metal ring around the circle while securing it with screws as I go. I would bet that either option would come out to the same approximate cost.
Thanks for the link for the high heat fabric. That was more or less what I was thinking. Ideally it would be nice if the bowl could be easily removed without damage if needed someday.
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@ReanimatedRobot
If your want to use 1-1/4” wide SS band to hold kettle, what thickness do you have in mind? Let me know, I’ll check our scrap pile.
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@ReanimatedRobot
I measured the SS taco handle strap on my 22” MT & 26” GB and both are .068-.069 thick.
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Right now I was looking at 1/8 inch thickness on the ring and any other hardware that might be fabricated. 1/16 inch might work as well. Thinner is easier to shape, but not as solid as thicker so its really a trade off. The band could also be slightly wider at 1.5 inchss. Not sure what others have used for their ring style ranch builds.
Availability also plays a roll. Right now i am looking at ordering online with Grainger because there aren't any supply stores around here with SS. They do not have 1/16 thickness. Other down side is they only do 6 feet so it will likely take two pieces that are connected at two points for the ring.
Appreciate your input/assistance.
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@ReanimatedRobot
I’ll look around the shop tomorrow and see what I can find.
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@ReanimatedRobot
I used “Leveling Mount Inserts for Tubular Legs“ from McMaster to repair a tube frame on a Weber Gen 1000 gas grill earlier this year. You might be able to use them in constructing your frame. It’s just an idea.
https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-tube-inserts/
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@AZ2FL We really seem to be on the same track here. I have been eyeballing McMaster for this Leveling Mount inserts already.
I have kind of rethought the notches in the legs for the ring to insert into idea. I think the better method of securing would be to overlap the pieces of the ring and secure them directly to the inside of the leg. Notching the leg could eventually cause it to bow out.
I attached what I have been eyeballing at Grainger to kind of give you an idea of what my cost figures might be. The flat bar for the ring could probably be 1/16 of an inch thick and be plenty sturdy I would think. I might use some left over flat bar for some accessories such as hook mounts or lid guards on the front much like the Ranch actually has.
Depending on what you have available for scraps/materials I would be happy to work something out with you for material cost and time. If we are talking about enough material for a whole ring I would even be willing to send some extra cash your way to bend it into a ring because I doubt the shipping would be much different from long and skinny to square and slim. If I didn't have to bend a ring the rest of the project could easily be completed with a chop saw, angle grinder with a cutting disk, and a drill press.
Tomorrow I will try to get some pencil and paper and start drafting some plans for this monster. I can't seem to get my mind off of it until I get it all figured out. Thanks for the help!
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Grainger Cart Pic. I would actually need two pieces of the 1/8 thick 1 1/4 flat bar to make a full ring. So that would be double what my screenshot shows.
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@Bill, check out this mini build done by @swamprb:
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/index.php?topic=27188
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@Bill, check out this mini build done by @swamprb:
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/index.php?topic=27188
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Well that settles it. 1/8 inch ring is probably overkill. I could see the benefit in making the ring wider too as it might allow for more clearance of hardware to be applied.
Hopefully swamprb will chime in since Bob tagged him and let us know how well it is holding up and if he has any regrets or would have done it differently. It or some variation of it really seems to be the way to go.
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@Bill, check out this mini build done by @swamprb:
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/index.php?topic=27188
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That's one awesome build !
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@ReanimatedRobot
I looked at @swamprb 26er build, he used 24 gauge (.0235) SS X 3" wide ring/band.
I have the following SS scrap, not sure what grade.
19 gauge SS (.042)
1-1/2" wide x 96" (10 pcs)
1-3/4" wide x 96" (10 pcs)
2" wide x 96" (10 pcs)
22 gauge SS (.029)
3.075 wide x 96" (1 pc)
I can not sell SS stock. I can give it to you, since my company will give it to me if I ask management.
SS flat stock is flexible and won't require a roller bender.
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@AZ2FL
I just had to offer to pay because you are being generous. I would at least want to pay you for shipping. I wouldn't want you to ask your management unless it was cool of you to do so either. I managed to find something similar on Grainger and a roll of it 6" wide would run me a fair penny and require cutting into long strips which with my available tools will not be a precise cut. Guessing from what I see on Grainger it may 302 of 316 grade. Whatever grade it is free is free and it will likely be in the garage when not in use. :p
After I draw up some plans I will probably shoot you a PM to work it out.
The flat stock certainly seems to be the way to go to avoid some head ache in terms of shaping the metal. I really wasn't looking forward to fighting it, but would if I had to.
Right now I am leaning towards the 2" or 3" bands because at that thickness it will certainly tuck in under the lip of the bowl rather than resting on the lip of the bowl. One thing I am debating is whether or not to use one piece or add some thickness by using two pieces.
I am kind of hoping swamprb will chime in and give some insight especially since his build is giving this one some inspiration. Always good to learn from the lessons/advice of others when you can.
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@ReanimatedRobot
Management is totally cool with letting us have scrap materials, as long as I ask!
I can always send two pieces of 2" x 96" and one 3" x 96" and let you figure it out... lol
Hopefully @swamprb can provide more insight for your mini ranch build.
Once you figure it out, shoot me a PM
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Some initial drawings of what I have in mind. Decided to keep the cross braces in a criss cross formation on different levels like the regular ranch frame. I did this because I figured it would be more structurally sound and easier to keep the whole frame square. Worst case scenario when/if I add a lower table I can mount square tube to the lower cross bar to level things out.
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@Bob BQ or @Kneab
Could I get the measurements for the mounting ring on your Summit Charcoal bowl? I believe my ring would be close to these measurements.
Does the tool holder simply hook onto the mounting ring before you place the bowl into the ring? What is the approximate width of the tool holder?
I am thinking of a clean way to add tool hooks to the cart and hooking them onto the ring somehow seems to be the cleanest way to do it. The part number is 65879. Given that it is stainless steel and fits well with the Summit Charcoal it would probably fit well with this build. I also think that the curviture of the Weber ring and my ring will be close enough that it should work without a lot of modification assuming there is enough space between the mounting leg and front handle.
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I will try to pull the bowl out tomorrow and measure it for you.
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Have you thought about using stainless steel pipe? They make 90 degree 3 way elbow fittings. You can order different lengths of pre-threaded pipe.. IDK... just an idea
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Looking at the Summit Charcoal plans I see that they used silicone edging between the bowl and mounting ring. Looks like something similar from McMaster-Carr has a heat rating between -80 to 450 degrees. The one thing that the Summit has that the 26 doesn't have for something like this is a multi wall design that might keep the heat way from the outside bowl. It looks like a tidier option than the fiberglass rope/fabric, but the fiberglass comes with a much higher heat rating.
https://www.mcmaster.com/silicone-rubber-edge-trim/
I may have to do some testing next time I run my 22 kettle with the IR thermometer to see how warm the bowl edge gets.
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Looking at the Summit Charcoal plans I see that they used silicone edging between the bowl and mounting ring. Looks like something similar from McMaster-Carr has a heat rating between -80 to 450 degrees. The one thing that the Summit has that the 26 doesn't have for something like this is a multi wall design that might keep the heat way from the outside bowl. It looks like a tidier option than the fiberglass rope/fabric, but the fiberglass comes with a much higher heat rating.
https://www.mcmaster.com/silicone-rubber-edge-trim/
I may have to do some testing next time I run my 22 kettle with the IR thermometer to see how warm the bowl edge gets.
I looked at the high temp rubber/foam style #4 with "A" dim 1/16" (p/n 4869A71). Parts are rather small see attached pic, it's to scale. Red is rubber and blue SS band.
You could use hi temp adhesive spray or hi temp fireplace caulk to adhere fiberglass fabric to inside of SS band.
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@AZ2FL
I know that the edging wouldn't cover the band entirely. It would only coat the top edge of the ring, but I believe this would be the only contact point with the kettle. The heat rating is the only concern at 450 degrees. I don't think in normal use the external temp of the kettle would get this hot, but maybe with a SnS concentrating heat it could get pretty warm.
Fiberglass is likely going to be the way to go, but finding the right adhesive is the trick. The best idea I have at this point is to use a combination of fiberglass rope edge seals/fabric that is bonded to the ring with JB weld high heat silicone that is rated for continuous temps of 550 degrees and intermittent at 650 degrees. Hopefully the exterior heat on the bowl would be less than the 550, especially with a layer of fiberglass acting as a buffer between the adhesive. There is also some fireplace cement/adhesive products that is commonly used but they become solid and require a heat treatment to cure that I cannot be certain to achieve.
https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-31314-Temperature-Silicone/dp/B00ID8IUJY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=high+temperature+rtv+6500&qid=1597985468&sr=8-1
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@ReanimatedRobot
Extruded rubber would be the best choice, assuming your 22” kettle bowl temp test is 450* or less.
Earlier this year I converted a 17” x 21” x 60” aluminum bread proofer into a vertical smoker. To seal the door I used high temp bbq gasket with Permatex High-Temp Red RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. This worked great with no issues. Vertical smoker never sees internal temps above 200*. It’s used for smoking summer sausage, fish, bacon and sausage
Bbq gasket link
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B015DAI8K0?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
I think your on the right track, I’m looking forward to your build.
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Nice! That gasket actually looks pretty good. Could probably apply it to the top of the ring sand make a few cuts here and there to fold it over the edge if the metal. Might look at their other products too.
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I believe the bbq gasket would work perfect for your application.
Gasket does have a very light weight adhesive backing. It’s was meant for BGE type cookers.
How I installed it was to lay down a thin beard (1/8” dia.) of hi temp rtv, removed backing from bbq gasket. Applied bbq gasket adhesive side down with light pressure onto rtv and let sit for about 45 minutes to let rtv setup. After 45 mins I closed cabinet door to form a good seal and let set for 24 hours. I know your not trying to seal smoke but protect 26” porcelain bowl.
I’ve never see a ranch kettle in person, just pictures. I want one, but not willing to pay $1,500 for a new ranch.
Venison snacks and summer sausage in the coffin. Lol
Keep us posted on your 26” ranch project.
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@Mr.CPHo has a 22" ranch I think
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Lots of great ideas being shared here. I've tried to hand-bend 1/8" steel flat stock for grill attachments before, and it didn't result in an elegant smooth curve like my imagination told me it would. I'm still not sure, however, that anything less than 1/8" would be stout enough for supporting the bowl. It will be pretty dang heavy by the time you get it loaded up with charcoal, a SNS XL, some cast iron, etc. Agree with the recommendation on fiberglass gasket - they make that in a flat variety (instead of a round fiberglass rope) that would work really well on that ring.
I've never seen anyone build out a Performer / Kettle Table frame using iron plumbing pipe fittings. Maybe that's an option? I could see someone making a beautiful table out of iron pipe fittings... that's a style that's very on-trend these days. Lowe's and Amazon also carry a line of structural pipe fittings called SteelTek in both galvanized and black finish. You'd still have a chore in chopping the pipe to length, but maybe you've got a chop saw that could work with that easy enough.
Excited to see how it comes along!