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Grill Talk => Weber Mods, Tables and Customs => Topic started by: mfridman on August 09, 2017, 06:48:58 PM

Title: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 09, 2017, 06:48:58 PM
I bought a beat up old kettle for $20 from CL, to use as a donor for this idea I have...
I want to make my 22.5" performer into a "poor man's Summit", buy adding insulation.  For the lid, i will add an inner lid, and fill the 1/4" or so between the inner and outer lid with carbon fiber welding blanket.  I plan to cut the lid down so it hides nicely inside the outer lid.

For the bowl, I am thinking I can cut an approx 5" high donut from the center part of the bowl.  I will RTV my carbon fiber blanket remnant to the outside of the donut, and then drop it in so that it sits on top of the charcoal grate, but below the cooking grate.  Again, about a 1/4" gap (at the top) filled with welding blanket. 

Here is a sketch of what it would look like:

(http://i.imgur.com/4oy67kv.png)

It probably won't insulate as well as the Summit, but I am thinking that between the mid-bowl and the lid, it should run more efficiently--meaning I should be able to get crazy high temps for pizza, or cook longer low+slow before I have to add charcoal.

What do you guys think?  Crazy?
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: Jules V. on August 09, 2017, 07:14:33 PM
Go for it.  Just love custom made stuffs especially by re-repurposing other items and materials. Be waiting for your progress. Good luck.




JV
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: jdorn on August 09, 2017, 10:04:04 PM
I'm curious to see how this turns out. Best of luck!

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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: dazzo on August 10, 2017, 07:26:49 AM
What about using the charcoal grate in the donut, and cut the bottom below it?

That might give you a couple more inches of insulation and the ash could still drop to the lower bowl for cleaning. Could even add a ring to give you a flue, although that would interfere with the sweeps.

Donut may need notches to clear the outer bowl grate straps.

Works in my mind, say the voices.


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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 10, 2017, 09:14:12 AM
What about using the charcoal grate in the donut, and cut the bottom below it?

That might give you a couple more inches of insulation and the ash could still drop to the lower bowl for cleaning. Could even add a ring to give you a flue, although that would interfere with the sweeps.

Donut may need notches to clear the outer bowl grate straps.

Works in my mind, say the voices.

I thought about this, but according to my almost-to-scale sketch, I would only gain about 1" more of insulating, and at the same time, would raise the charcoal grate up about 1".   Losing the inch would help with searing, but would hurt with indirect setups where I would have less area to put charcoal.   So I am not sure...

Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 10, 2017, 01:37:34 PM
I have started on the lid portion.  I taped around for a refrence line, then slowly cut with an angel grinder.  Then deburred / smoothed with a grinding disc and then sandpaper disc. 
The inner lid attached to the outer lid using long stainless screws and nuts, using the handle holes of the outer lid and new holes in the inner lid.  I also drilled a hole for a lid thermometer. 
The donor lid has had the handles chopped off, and I removed the damper by drilling out the rivet.
The last photo shows a test-fit, without the welding blanket. 







[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 10, 2017, 02:02:36 PM
The double-walled lid is pretty heavy, more than I realized it would be.  Not too heavy to move, but it flexes at the handle.  I think I may reinforce the handle area with some sheet steel.
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: jdorn on August 10, 2017, 03:57:55 PM
Looking good! Nice start!

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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: FrugalQ on August 10, 2017, 05:04:31 PM
I'd say skip the blanket if it's not too late. The summit is air pocket for a reason. Insulation may make it too efficient and create too much smoke of the nasty white variety.
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 10, 2017, 06:47:08 PM
I'd say skip the blanket if it's not too late. The summit is air pocket for a reason. Insulation may make it too efficient and create too much smoke of the nasty white variety.

I'm not sure I follow you.  My reasoning was that the thin welding blanket would allow me to have a small gap between the inner and outer lid.  The Summit has like a 3/4" to 1" gap, looking at the photos.  But, my mod is not permanent, I could easily remove the blanket!
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 10, 2017, 06:49:17 PM
More progress photos, I trimmed the blanket and fine tuned the nuts to hold it all together tightly. 



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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: wessonjb on August 10, 2017, 07:18:47 PM
Read where the Keg and the acorn used stove insulation causing them to be too efficient , which ended up with bad smoke or the fire snuffing itself out. Think that is what FrugalQ is talking about


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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: wessonjb on August 10, 2017, 07:19:48 PM
Definitely looking forward to seeing your finished product


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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 11, 2017, 06:34:00 AM
I'm re-thinking my idea with the welding blanket.  First: physics--the thermal conductivity of air is about 0.026 W/mK; the thermal conductivity of fiberglass is about 0.045, and wool felt is ~0.06.
In other words, air is a better insulator (if it is not moving much) than various textiles.
My welding blanket has a definite "chemical" smell to it, which makes me concerned that it might not be a good idea for inside-the-grill use.

Plan B: use the 1/4+" air gap as the insulation, and use BBQ pit gasket material to seal the bottom to prevent air circulation inside the lid.
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: kettlebb on August 11, 2017, 06:39:17 AM
Plan B sounds good. This will be cool to watch.


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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: jdorn on August 11, 2017, 09:44:17 AM
Plan B sounds better!

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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: cwmfour on August 11, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
Very interested in this build. 

Whit
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 13, 2017, 05:58:50 PM
Cooked pizza using the double lid.  I didn't get the temps I was hoping for, I think the inner lid stabilized at around 470, with the top air temp closer to 600-650F, my pizza steel running at about 550F. 

However, I didn't manage to get any lump to burn, and did the cook with two chimneys full of briquettes.

Maybe I need to use lump to try to raise the temps more?




Title: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: HoosierKettle on August 13, 2017, 07:50:04 PM
Did you crack the lid?  Most likely not enough air flow. 

I've had my thermometer pegged using the pizzaque using kingsford

I've also pegged the thermometer without the pizzaque but cracking the lid substantially.


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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: Jon on August 13, 2017, 10:42:33 PM
I think that building a great pizza cooker and building a DIY Summit Charcoal Grill are two very different things. You have to figure out the ranges of airflow and radiant heat. Most of us here are coming from the Kettlepizza method where you just overpower with firewood splits on the charcoal.

Great job, by the way.
Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: mfridman on August 14, 2017, 06:36:38 AM
I think that building a great pizza cooker and building a DIY Summit Charcoal Grill are two very different things. You have to figure out the ranges of airflow and radiant heat. Most of us here are coming from the Kettlepizza method where you just overpower with firewood splits on the charcoal.

Great job, by the way.

Yes, you have a good point.

There are two sides to getting high temps--retaining heat (insulation) and generating it in the first place (airflow / combustion).   I am looking at the insulation part, but I also need to understand airflow.

The kamado style cookers, and the Summit both hit very high temps easily, according to their fans.  I'm trying to see if it is feasible to get similar results on my kettle.
Title: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: HoosierKettle on August 14, 2017, 06:57:11 AM
Kamados typically have the capability to open them wide open. A kettle is limited by its 4 small holes on one vent. Hi temps will only be achieved by creating more air flow by adding or modding the existing vent or simply cracking the lid.

For example, I can put a full chimney of lit lump coal and as soon as I put the lid on with vents all open, it will start putting out the flames and settle in at a moderate high heat but never achieve extremely high temps. That's the premise of weber covered BBQ [emoji3]
Kettle pizza provides the needed air flow. Wood splits or lump is virtually irrelevant since you can hit 900 with good old kingsford.

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Title: Re: Poor Man's Summit
Post by: CatskillSmoker on August 14, 2017, 07:04:49 AM
Great ingenuity go on.
Keep us posted.