Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: Cellar2ful on January 23, 2017, 09:42:21 AM
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This question came up on another thread and I thought this deserved a dedicated topic. What do you think are the causes for "faded black" kettles? Although I have seen slight fading in other colors of Webers, none seem to deteriorate as badly as black kettles. Is it because people with colored kettles tended to take better care of them? Is it exposure to sun? Exposure to heat from cooking? Why is it you never see the interior of kettle faded? Maybe some input from some of the Statesman and more seasoned members. I am just a "red shirt freshman" here.
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Good topic @ Cellar2ful. I am interested!
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Be prepared for a million responses!!! This has been discussed/argued often. Many say "sun fade", but that doesn't explain why the fade is consistent, even in the shaded parts of the exterior. I personally believe it's a combo of chemical makeup of pigment, kettle heat, & exposure to elements over long period of time. Might be why interiors stand up over time compared to exteriors. People do tend to take better care of color kettles, so they are covered/sheltered more often than not.
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Seems to be on mid 80's & earlier only
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The fade on my A code I just gave away was a little lighter on the lid. I do think it's uncovered exposure to the sun and elements. I doubt Weber used a different enamel on the interior and it was still nice and black. If it was chemical makeup of the enamel I'd expect an even fade inside and out.
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Seems to be on mid 80's & earlier only
Let me complicate this then. Here is a 2001 (DA Code) 18" I just picked up. Fading starting on the lid, no fade whatsoever on the bowl. I did ask the person I got it from if the bowl had been replaced. She said no.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/23/DSC02789.md.jpg)
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I have this M code (1990) One-Touch Plus.
I find it interesting that the lid is faded some, but the bowl not so much. I like the two-tone look.
Hard to tell exactly from the pic below, but it's there. I believe it is due to sun exposure.
(http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n615/MacEggs/IMG_6134.jpg) (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/MacEggs/media/IMG_6134.jpg.html)
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I'll volunteer to start an experiment. This spring and summer I'll leave my black DE OTG out uncovered and see what happens.
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I'll volunteer to start an experiment. This spring and summer I'll leave my black DE OTG out uncovered and see what happens.
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Haha, it's going to take longer than that. My ots has been sitting uncovered since 09 and still no fade. It's never been cleaned. I'll try to shine up a little spot and post a picture
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Here some pictures of my dz code that I bought new and has never been covered. I did a quick clean. I can possibly see the start of fade but not sure.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/57f16b9e4a4ba0aee474cb396f7619f9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/7c38f84afcebb66c9d4cebcbf5e6c965.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/30899fc0a259ff24590236652533f5b2.jpg)
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I think its Sun/UV related as there are several kettles that have "tanlines" from tape being placed on the porcelain as it's exposed to the sun. A bowl may get reflected light on it if the ground is white, such as concrete. It's presumably less when the ground is not reflective such as dirt or grass. It seems like the late 70's kettles have this the worst- it's possible that the porcelain formulation or spray process changed resulting in different characteristics such as thickness, orange peel, heat/UV resistance, etc. The Weber black porcelain is DEEP so it aborbs lights very well. However, certain wavelengths of light can can change the color over time. This is all my own speculation.
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@pbe gummi bear- I never considered reflective UV nor the affect the surface a kettle is stored on has. The kettle I posted a picture of with the faded lid and no fade bowl spent its 16 years outside on a wooden deck. Might very well explain why the bowl has no fade as I believe wood absorbs rather than reflects UV's.
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Yep. Wood, grass, blacktop would not reflect. Does anyone have an example of faded red or other color?
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What is interesting to me about black fade is that it can be reversed or improved. When I got the fleetwood last year, it had splotches and spots all over it. I cleaned it all over with a sponge and apple cider vinegar per @1buckie, and then applied PAM. A year later, the splotches are gone, and although the PAM treatment has worn off, it now has a beautiful, even patina. I did a pork butt this weekend, and this is how it looked at 7am. I've included the before pic below to show the transformation.
(http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y348/jason_crowder1/16237961_10155797576217907_1371269944_n%201_zpsnusoqgvz.jpg) (http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/jason_crowder1/media/16237961_10155797576217907_1371269944_n%201_zpsnusoqgvz.jpg.html)
Before apple cider vinegar and PAM:
(http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y348/jason_crowder1/12769593_10154631691782907_1876642393_n_zpshzmdjaan.jpg) (http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/jason_crowder1/media/12769593_10154631691782907_1876642393_n_zpshzmdjaan.jpg.html)
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Does anyone have an example of faded red or other color?
The one on the left spent its life outdoors in the Santa Cruz area while the one on right was garage kept.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2016/10/10/DSC02280.md.jpg)
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Wow! Thank you Jim for that example. The one on the right looks almost neon yellow. It's really hard for me to pick a favorite in that pic. Leaning towards the left yellow.
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Yep. Wood, grass, blacktop would not reflect. Does anyone have an example of faded red or other color?
Here's my red that has led a rough outdoor life. From five feet it looks good, but when you get closer you see the fade.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2016/08/08/IMG_4676.md.jpg) (http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/image/S1x) (http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2016/08/30/IMG_4678.md.jpg) (http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/image/SRD)
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Looks similar to my red MT. The lid looks dull if you will compared to the bowl. Maybe mine is faded also?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/9cdb7ff0b3b383b23bd6207d4dcf4406.jpg)
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I tend to agree with brewtownbeatdown and pbe gummi bear statements. Combination of sun/uv exposure and cooking heat on thick orange peel black porcelain. Something in the color pigment or chemical makeup on the final coat may contribute to fading also.
Here is my A-code I posted on other thread with even fade top to bottom. Don't think Sun/UV exposure alone over time can do this.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/23/2016-06-2511.56.05.jpg)(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/23/2016-06-2501.29.45.jpg)
As for why not fade inside as asked by Cellar2ful .... I have 2 possible explanation that may or may not apply.
First, due to smoke and grease and over time with film of crud forming on the surface- never get chance to haze or fade. Similar to how applying oil brings back faded exterior to black.
Second is bit more far fetched. When kettle lids and bowls are sprayed at the manufacture, they are first sprayed with black bonder or primer similar but very different to exterior finial black coat which is applied after. I have seen light blue interior on Red MBH Cellar2ful has, but that is another story. This is why every other color lids and bowls has black interior. So my theory is that they go thru. 2 step or 3 step process similar to how automotive manufactures paint their vehicles. Therefore, spray porcelain composition is different for exterior than interior. Concluding that interior spray chemical makeup lacks color pigment or something exterior makeup has on the final coat.
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What is interesting to me about black fade is that it can be reversed or improved. When I got the fleetwood last year, it had splotches and spots all over it. I cleaned it all over with a sponge and apple cider vinegar per @1buckie, and then applied PAM. A year later, the splotches are gone, and although the PAM treatment has worn off, it now has a beautiful, even patina. I did a pork butt this weekend, and this is how it looked at 7am. I've included the before pic below to show the transformation.
(http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y348/jason_crowder1/16237961_10155797576217907_1371269944_n%201_zpsnusoqgvz.jpg) (http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/jason_crowder1/media/16237961_10155797576217907_1371269944_n%201_zpsnusoqgvz.jpg.html)
Before apple cider vinegar and PAM:
(http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y348/jason_crowder1/12769593_10154631691782907_1876642393_n_zpshzmdjaan.jpg) (http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/jason_crowder1/media/12769593_10154631691782907_1876642393_n_zpshzmdjaan.jpg.html)
Certain oils can polymerize at temperature changing the characteristics of surface. It can make it darker, smoother, harder, etc. Its also possible that the porcelain has become porous and absorbed some of that initial coating of Pam.
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If you think about it, perhaps the earlier kettles have a different pigment in the paint, therefore over time it fades. Sunlight reacts to the pigments (or even time except for when it's in a garage). Manufactures are changing formulas constantly so that wouldn't surprise me.
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it's probably something out of left field... like whether or not the original owner cleaned it with windex or something.
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This is an "N" code 18" WSM that had sat for years uncovered. The previous owners used it for a fire pit when they weren't burning meat! The were too effin' lazy to move it when they had their house painted.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_5014.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_5010.jpg)
The vents were corroded in place. I used a WD-40 type spray lube and noticed the color start to return to black from the faded grey.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_5007.jpg)
I thought I had found the cure to the fade, but alas it was not to be! A day or two later the fade returned. Just as it had on the 3 Amigos.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_3990.jpg)
Notice the greezey spots from the vents? These actually would not come clean.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_0711.jpg)
I've had a half a dozen "touch of grey's" and even gone as far as to use Lard to try to "season" a hot kettle to restore the luster - to no avail.
Roll with it!
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The thing I find interesting is it is not just a fade that occurs with the black kettles, over time it is a total degradation of the porcelain enamel finish. At first these kettles become "faded blacks". Then with more time and exposure they move on to having what most of us refer to as having "patinas". That is where the enamel becomes so thin, the metal starts showing through and rusting. It's not the type of ugly rust you see on grate strap blow outs though. I just don't see this "patina" happening on kettles other than black.
Here is a 18" that has moved on to the patina stage:
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02790.md.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02791.md.jpg)
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If that patina happens by leaving it exposed for some serious time, I'm going to do that to my faded black mbh.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/c5d09da8df6bbce9ae4121f4c353b9df.jpg)
Here's an example of how the fade can be cleaned up
.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170125/1ac38632923abc9e5eb0426a823cddb1.jpg)
Yesterday's cook. Been a few months since heated up.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170125/c263469f4215b678836c64a0078d9a9f.jpg)
Today's. Sprayed with pam while heating. The boards on the ground are what I lay the lid on...
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Looks great Travis. How long does that Pam treatment last?
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(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02790.md.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02791.md.jpg)
This is one of my favorite looks right now, so hoping one like that will pop up near me
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@travis that 26er is a beauty. Either I haven't noticed or I haven't seen one with a flat spot under the handle. You can see the spin nicely too. Pretty incredible. I can tell you my modern 26 is boring to look at in comparison.
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(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02790.md.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2017/01/24/DSC02791.md.jpg)
This is one of my favorite looks right now, so hoping one like that will pop up near me
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I agree. Love that look. My favorite old kettles are ones with some wear and battle scars, but a perfect patina like that is incredible.
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@kettlebb How long it last probably depends on usage and if it's covered. Mines covered and I've sprayed it twice this year.
@HoosierKettle Grass is greener, I guess. I'd like to have a newer one. I think they're absolutely beautiful, especially with a set of nice wood handles...[emoji6]
Here's the original post of how it came to me
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/weber-kettles-accessories/thank-you-madmax/msg225700/#msg225700
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@WNC- "Rat Rod" Weber.
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@WNC- "Rat Rod" Weber.
I know a guy in town that has one with the patina we're talking about, I'm trying to get him to trade me a redhead for it...
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Great insight