Weber Kettle Club Forums
Cooking & Food Talk => Charcoal Grilling & BBQ => Topic started by: THROUGH THE MUD BBQ TEAM on December 28, 2015, 10:03:49 AM
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If you had to choose between one of these products, which would you pick for doing steaks?
Vortex or Grillgrates?
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Grill grates because I would choose large thermal mass grates for searing marks onto the steaks over high intensity flame made by the Vortex.
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I have both products, use them both regularly, and would recommend either (or both) products to anyone cooking on a kettle.
That being said, I always use the GrillGrates for steaks. When I was cooking at home on my 22, I would load up a full chimney and, when lit, spread them out between my two (empty) baskets. Depending on whether you use them right-side up or upside down, you will either get great grill marks or a "flat-top" style steak.
On my 26, I can use grates and still have some room as a warming area.
BD
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For steaks, neither.
The grates will give marks, but less flavor. (like a gas grill)
The vortex will give a great crust, no marks, and only big enough for one steak.
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For steaks, neither.
The grates will give marks, but less flavor. (like a gas grill)
The vortex will give a great crust, no marks, and only big enough for one steak.
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What about if you only use the grillgrates for the sear part of a reverse sear? I have a hard time believing that the the flavor would be less when you are still cooking with charcoal. Are you eluding to aromas from the fat dripping directly onto the charcoal?
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For steaks, neither.
The grates will give marks, but less flavor. (like a gas grill)
The vortex will give a great crust, no marks, and only big enough for one steak.
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What about if you only use the grillgrates for the sear part of a reverse sear? I have a hard time believing that the the flavor would be less when you are still cooking with charcoal. Are you eluding to aromas from the fat dripping directly onto the charcoal?
Same thing. Even reverse sear gives less flavor than traditional sear'n'slide method.
The best flavor comes from fats dripping into the fire and burning up.
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Didn't think this thread would turn into a debate about traditional and reverse searing.
The reverse sear method is slower, which means more time on the grill. Which means more time to get flavor into the meat.
The beauty about BBQ, there is no right or wrong.
This might call for a side by side taste test between the two methods!
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Yeah, nobody gets along on here.
I'm with ya on the taste testing!
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I'm in agreement with, wait for it, @Troy . I don't consider black animal flesh a desirable flavor profile although grill marks are pretty to look at. Meathead likes Reverse-Sear. I don't, I like Sear-n-Slide ... w/ SnS and hot coal close to the cooking grate you can control the amount of time each surface is presented to the heat to watch for the deep dark Mahogany color that indicates Malliard Reaction has completed ... while absorbing the burning juice smoke from the meat juice. 8-count perside, flip at 8 and restart the count. When you get to the color you want, check the internal temp and cool-zone it until it hits your mark. Only problem I've ever had with that method is trying to cook a rare "thin" steak. That's tricky. But, as they say in BBQ & Grilling, YOU cook your food the way YOU like it cooked and never mind what anyone else says. SJ
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Grill Grates
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I'm in agreement with, wait for it, @Troy . I don't consider black animal flesh a desirable flavor profile although grill marks are pretty to look at. Meathead likes Reverse-Sear. I don't, I like Sear-n-Slide ... w/ SnS and hot coal close to the cooking grate you can control the amount of time each surface is presented to the heat to watch for the deep dark Mahogany color that indicates Malliard Reaction has completed ... while absorbing the burning juice smoke from the meat juice. 8-count perside, flip at 8 and restart the count. When you get to the color you want, check the internal temp and cool-zone it until it hits your mark. Only problem I've ever had with that method is trying to cook a rare "thin" steak. That's tricky. But, as they say in BBQ & Grilling, YOU cook your food the way YOU like it cooked and never mind what anyone else says. SJ
Not sure why either technique would produce 'black animal flesh'. Here are pics from the last time I reverse seared ribeyes
(http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/bigalweber/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-11%2021.11.14_zpsparw9cu8.jpg) (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/bigalweber/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-11%2021.11.14_zpsparw9cu8.jpg.html)
(http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b422/bigalweber/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-11%2021.10.42_zpsedlb18ve.jpg) (http://s1042.photobucket.com/user/bigalweber/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-11%2021.10.42_zpsedlb18ve.jpg.html)
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That RS steak is pretty good, but check out these sear and slide steaks I cooked last weekend using the Slow 'N Sear. I've cooked steaks all kinds of different ways and have found I much prefer the sear and slide results over reverse sear.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB1MHpWcAAJoHg.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB2YM_WcAEN94Z.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB7A-0WEAA_JG6.jpg)
You can tell by how the muscle fibers are so loosely bound together that this was a SUPER tender steak 8)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB9q5lWcAA6SQQ.jpg)
Here's a picture of the sear zone in action
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV_exntU4AAiI70.jpg)
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I use the Slow' N' Sear for just about everything really works great.
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Looks like there's quite few ways to make great steaks!
I'm going to have to try the slow n sear now!
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For looks, grill grates.
For the most maillard reaction/browning evenly across steak = any method directly over fire. I like Meatheads article on this topic.
"That's one of the reasons that great steakhouses use broilers where the flames are above the meat. That way they can get brown all over. That's why grill marks don't make me salivate. I want brown all over."
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For looks, grill grates.
For the most maillard reaction/browning evenly across steak = any method directly over fire. I like Meatheads article on this topic.
"That's one of the reasons that great steakhouses use broilers where the flames are above the meat. That way they can get brown all over. That's why grill marks don't make me salivate. I want brown all over."
Agreed.
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For looks, grill grates.
For the most maillard reaction/browning evenly across steak = any method directly over fire. I like Meatheads article on this topic.
"That's one of the reasons that great steakhouses use broilers where the flames are above the meat. That way they can get brown all over. That's why grill marks don't make me salivate. I want brown all over."
I recently reverse seared burgers on the grill grates and achieved 'brown all over' by flipping the grates over and using them more like a griddle.
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Ha! Science. Can't argue with science.
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Anybody used a CI or SS pan or griddle for at least the sear, if not the cook? I haven't, but read it's a path to a crispier, browned coating. You see this also in the Steak Revolution documentary done at some restaurants, no?
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@addicted-to-smoke my next ribeye is getting lightly smoked indirect on the kettle and finished in a cast iron pan with some ghee (clarified butter used in Indian cooking - it has the milk solids removed so it has a much higher smoke point than regular butter. You can even deep fry in it).
Restaurants use a salamander which is a broiler that gets as hot as 1000-1200 degrees. Since the heat is above the steak, it can get a nice even crust without flare ups. Cast iron is a good way at home to get intense heat directly into the side of a steak. Even though a weber can get up near 1000 degrees that heat dissipates quickly the farther you get from the coals.
I'm not saying cast iron is a better way than reverse sear or slide and sear but it's something I'd like to try and experiment with.
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Just remember three things:
1. Opinions are like a$$________s.
2. Pretty much everybody's got one.
3. And, for the most part, everyone's "opinion" works pretty well for them.
BD
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Sous vide? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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+100 sous vide. It's like crack, now I'm an addict. Sous vide for the win!
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Like this???
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160114/c5988e99bbd19f458c2c0750d97af30d.jpg)
Sous vide @ 128 for 3.5 hours, and then seared over a full chimney of coal in the WSJ.
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Like this???
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160114/c5988e99bbd19f458c2c0750d97af30d.jpg)
Sous vide @ 128 for 3.5 hours, and then seared over a full chimney of coal in the WSJ.
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Daayummm!!! Yes, like that!!!
Sous vide is the future, at least mine. I'll have a hard time going back. I got mine in November, so haven't experimented enough to see what temp suits me best. I'm sure my wife and kids like a tad bit more done than I, but there's been no complaints so far.
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@jfbincypress, that is one good lookin' steak ! ! !
BD
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Might be another option out there...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/OldDave/WSM%20Cooking/DSC03390.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/OldDave/WSM%20Cooking/DSC03392.jpg)
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I've ever met the problem that method is trying to cook a rare "thin" steak. :-X
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Anybody used a CI or SS pan or griddle for at least the sear, if not the cook? I haven't, but read it's a path to a crispier, browned coating. You see this also in the Steak Revolution documentary done at some restaurants, no?
I have never been as much of a fan of cooking in the cast iron pan as I am cooking over coals. Not sure the exact reason, I think it has to do with sitting in its own grease more but not sure. It does do a good job of crisping up all over though.
On the point of Steak Revolution as a reference point... I wouldn't let that sway my opinion too much. VERY little cooking over coals in that movie, apparently just not much BBQ going on, I don't know if that has much to do with the "right" way to cook a steak vs just the way its done... not here.
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Sous vide? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
No need for tears... if sous vide is wrong, I don't wanna be right. At least I finish them over charcoal. ;)
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Sous vide? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
No need for tears... if sous vide is wrong, I don't wanna be right. At least I finish them over charcoal. ;)
Agreed! And I do, as well.
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I love my GrillGrates, just don't like the gasser they are on. That being said they work well on either side and for all kinds of things. My wife likes them when she makes carne asada. As for the not flat side, I take the example of Meathead and throw out some pellets in the grooves. I've never used the Vortex but i would imagine it is pretty much like searing directly over the chimney. $0.02
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Sous vide? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
No need for tears... if sous vide is wrong, I don't wanna be right. At least I finish them over charcoal. ;)
Agreed! And I do, as well.
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Hell yeah! If you're like me, and I know I am, there is nothing like sitting around the sous vide tub on a great summer eve with your buddies and a cooler full of cold beer.
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@Jake; IMHO sous vide is a French concept (at least is sounds French), I find it amazing that a country that can't wash their armpits on a regular basis has such an obsession with bacterial growth/death in the food they eat. :)
SJ
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Meathead likes Reverse-Sear. I don't, I like Sear-n-Slide ... w/ SnS and hot coal close to the cooking grate you can control the amount of time each surface is presented to the heat to watch for the deep dark Mahogany color that indicates Malliard Reaction has completed ... while absorbing the burning juice smoke from the meat juice. 8-count perside, flip at 8 and restart the count. When you get to the color you want, check the internal temp and cool-zone it until it hits your mark. Only problem I've ever had with that method is trying to cook a rare "thin" steak. That's tricky. But, as they say in BBQ & Grilling, YOU cook your food the way YOU like it cooked and never mind what anyone else says. SJ
Ditto on the Sear-n-slide
I use Craycourts and the Slow N Sear which is closer to the vortex. I have grill grates but only use the backsides for no flareup flat top work. I believe you can get a superior product with sous vide and a sear but you are now into a 2-cook process which I'm usually not willing to do.
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I love my GrillGrates, just don't like the gasser they are on. That being said they work well on either side and for all kinds of things. My wife likes them when she makes carne asada. As for the not flat side, I take the example of Meathead and throw out some pellets in the grooves. I've never used the Vortex but i would imagine it is pretty much like searing directly over the chimney. $0.02
A couple of years ago GrillGrates had some overstock and put some of their standard plates on clearance. I was able to pick up four plates for less than $100. Trimmed about ¾" off one plate and turned my dad's base level CharBroil into a nice little cooker.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o216/wmdipietro/IMG_1415_zpsqyiivjxm.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/wmdipietro/media/IMG_1415_zpsqyiivjxm.jpg.html)
Here we have 3 Medium Wells, 6 Mediums, and 3 Medium Rares.
I agree with:
But, as they say in BBQ & Grilling, YOU cook your food the way YOU like it cooked and never mind what anyone else says. SJ
Reverse Sear, Sear-n- Slide, Sous Vide, Vortex, GrillGrates, Slow 'n Sear, Flattop, Grill Marks, etc., etc., etc.,
Lots and lots and lots of choices. Pick the one(s) that work(s) for you ! ! !
BD
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Grill grates with a few pellets sprinkled over them makes a sous vide steaks taste pretty close to a steak cooked over fire the whole cook.
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This is how I like my steak done on the outside with some color and some crusty texture. I usually get some kind of grill marks from super high heat, but not concerned with nice grill marks.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB2YM_WcAEN94Z.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB7A-0WEAA_JG6.jpg)
You can tell by how the muscle fibers are so loosely bound together that this was a SUPER tender steak 8)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXB9q5lWcAA6SQQ.jpg)
To achieve this, no need for Vortex for high heat or Grillgrates for non flareup design CI. I have experimented with raising charcoal grate 1 to 2inch for better sear even with only1/2 full charcoals. Worked out great but normal 3/4 to full chimney charcoal in the charcoal basket does the trick for me.
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That steak looks amazing.
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