Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: pbe gummi bear on May 03, 2013, 02:53:39 PM
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Hi, I decided to make a a template for a replacement ash catcher bar from the older style One-Touch Gold ash catchers. Later on, I hope to make one that is compatible with the newer H-style assemblies. Here's a preview for now!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397908_962750353418_244639968_n.jpg)
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Cool. That looks familiar. Too bad it is not easy to locate a ring to fit that bar.
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Hi, I decided to make a a template for a replacement ash catcher bar from the older style One-Touch Gold ash catchers. Later on, I hope to make one that is compatible with the newer H-style assemblies. Here's a preview for now!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397908_962750353418_244639968_n.jpg)
You sir are a hero and a legend.
Good luck on your quest.
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I just helped a customer for your first production run, pbe. His ash catcher bar works, but it is looking pretty weak and flimsy. Sorry and saggy.
Godspeed in your quest.
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If Weber is discontinuing the old style OT ash assembly, we need a way to adapt these bars to the newer "H" style assemblies.. So Lawrence, is thsi something we can have made or just the drawing? It would be awesome to order up some of these..AJ 8)
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AJ, yeah that's the next project. Ill test this one out this weekend. I need to get my hands on the H style in due time.
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Can someone post a pic of the bottom of the "H" assembly?
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Go pbe...stainless steel would be ideal and if they fit the H style sweeper, even better. I remeber a post a few years back about someone crafting these to original specs at a metal fab shop. I think they had several made that sold out quickly.
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Can someone post a pic of the bottom of the "H" assembly?
This is as close as I can come.
.
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn123/baeseman1/WSM/1BA15220-D53F-42EC-AC9B-0C2C8BF10076-1868-000000EF171AD768.jpg)
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hopefully this helps too...
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3307/007zl.jpg)
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6913/009ueb.jpg)
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Hi, I decided to make a a template for a replacement ash catcher bar from the older style One-Touch Gold ash catchers. Later on, I hope to make one that is compatible with the newer H-style assemblies. Here's a preview for now!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397908_962750353418_244639968_n.jpg)
You are the man if you can make this happen. We need a micrometer for the thickness of the "H" clip. The bar will have to be the same thickness. I did do an install, so tight, as the bar is thicker than the "H" clip and it does not lock in.
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Yeah we can make this happen. I have the mic and digital calipers ;) thanks for the pics! It gets the gears turning.
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So I went to the hardware store today (OSH) and they only had the screw type in stock. They still had about 4 of them. I did get a chance to look at the new assembly on the new performer. It's more complex than I initially assumed but I have a few ideas I am gonna mock up.
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Hi, Sorry for the lack of updates. My workstation was on the fritz. Here are the dimensions and sheet metal pattern of the old style ash catcher bar. It is a little simplified because the original weber one has fillets and curved cuts. These dimensions should get you very close but I have not had the time to try it myself. I printed out the pattern at proper scale though and laid it over the existing bar and it seems to check out. If there are any machinists, draftsmen, engineers or architects in the audience I apologize in advance for the dimensioning. Not my fault, I promise. :)
Ash Catcher bar dimensions
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/970248_967692928458_19798215_n.jpg)
Ash Catcher bar sheet metal pattern
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/970248_967692933448_277718026_n.jpg)
I'll have a pdf of the sheet metal pattern up soon. I need to fix it.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/945059_967707843568_723630900_n.jpg)
Testing out the sheet metal pattern. Looks good imo.
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You can download the Ashbar templates here:
pdf form
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80nyzigdh3sst0a/Ashbar%20Template.pdf
Docx form
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9t0wmy1sgwg232/Ashbar%20Template.docx
The Docx may be a little easier to scale while printing. For some reason my Acrobat won't let me scale the print. ymmv with printer and software though. The template is at an angle so that it fits on one sheet of A4.
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I thought about building them as well , if you do I'd be a good customer :)
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I thought about building them as well , if you do I'd be a good customer :)
Yeah the idea is open source especially since I don't have the access to the tools at the moment. Ill consider making a batch one day though!
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What is the demand for something like this? I buy stuff from a metal fab shop through work all the time and get some pricing on this if enough people are interested. I'm guessing nobody else makes this part?
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What is the demand for something like this? I buy stuff from a metal fab shop through work all the time and get some pricing on this if enough people are interested. I'm guessing nobody else makes this part?
I am new here but the lady at Weber who just sold me a bunch of parts says no longer available, and neither is the old style basket. So if you buy a new style basket, you will have to attach with clamps as was suggested to me, or buy a new bowl from an 05 model for $65. (So potentially a $100 project if you do it right, vs maybe $10 in materials if you DIY and re-use the OEM stuff)
PBE, that template looks awesome. Looking forward to printing and see how mine matches up with the angles so I can get it perfect without much test and refit.
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What is the demand for something like this? I buy stuff from a metal fab shop through work all the time and get some pricing on this if enough people are interested. I'm guessing nobody else makes this part?
I am new here but the lady at Weber who just sold me a bunch of parts says no longer available, and neither is the old style basket. So if you buy a new style basket, you will have to attach with clamps as was suggested to me, or buy a new bowl from an 05 model for $65. (So potentially a $100 project if you do it right, vs maybe $10 in materials if you DIY and re-use the OEM stuff)
PBE, that template looks awesome. Looking forward to printing and see how mine matches up with the angles so I can get it perfect without much test and refit.
You are right, Mike. This is really for the person who has the ashcatcher collar and pot but their bar may have rusted through.
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gummi - those are outstanding.
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Ditto Bman
Awesome job Pb
Brent
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Appreciate the effort pbe....seems like it would be fairly easy to fashion if you had the right size metal stock. Time to talk to a guy I know in the metal fab biz.
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Gummy all you need to do is draw that "H" pattern in the bar where that hole is. The trick is to get someone to machine the "H" in the bar then bend it up. The bar takes place of that round disk with the "H" in it. If someone can get a metal shop to fabricate these I'll take 2 or 3. Someone has to be able to make these. I'll talk to the guys at work.. I'll get Gummy's drawings....
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Can anyone else find someone to make these as well? I would make two kinds, the one with the "H" and the original with the hole....
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Gummy all you need to do is draw that "H" pattern in the bar where that hole is. The trick is to get someone to machine the "H" in the bar then bend it up. The bar takes place of that round disk with the "H" in it. If someone can get a metal shop to fabricate these I'll take 2 or 3. Someone has to be able to make these. I'll talk to the guys at work.. I'll get Gummy's drawings....
Brian, that's not exactly correct. The H pattern rotates with the handle on the new one touch but they need to be independent. Putting the H instead of the hole would constrain the bar with the leg sockets.
I have a few ideas on how to do this but it's more complex than either original part. Alternatively you can create a longer holder for the ash sweeper handle- the part that goes through the H, to accommodate an extra thickness of the old style bar. But I haven't looked into the tolerances if this is feasible.
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Yea your right, you need to make the bar the old style and then try to find the older ash sweeper kit with just the washer on the bottom....
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" Alternatively you can create a longer holder for the ash sweeper handle- the part that goes through the H, to accommodate an extra thickness of the old style bar. But I haven't looked into the tolerances if this is feasible. "
This........or use thinner metal for the bar, but that would defeat the purpose of replacing it, almost..... :D
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It occured to me a while back why this part was shaped so funnily but I didn't think too much of it until a recent post by Mike.Stavlund. I thought that you can make this part with only 4 bends instead of 6 that make it looks like a "W" and Mike's new performer has one! Thanks for the revelation, Mike!
The ash catcher bar has the following functions:
1. hold the ash catcher and ash up
2. allow the ashsweeper handle to rotate freely
3. not obstruct airflow
4. allow ash and ember to fall down into the pot.
#1 is obvious. If its rusted to sh!t, it will break bend, and fall off. But you also get less vertical deflection for the same load with the beam at an angle.
#2 Unlike the "H" style ashsweeper, this bar does not rotate with the ash sweeper handle. The bar is also bent to have just the right clearance so that the handle doesn't hit it at full open and close. Great attention to detail by the weber engineers. Note the clearance here: (https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/320805_962710383518_2040478543_n.jpg)
#3/#4 were not obvious to me until I saw what a simplified ashcatcher bar is like. A recent pickup by mike.stavlund shows one that has 4 main bends- going straight into the tabs on the collar.
Here is a pic of that, I hope he doesn't mind i repost it here:
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r782/MikeStavlund/IMG_9789_zps0cfab3da.jpg)
original thread: http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/weber-kettles-accessories/the-reward-at-the-end-of-the-rainbow/
This part looks sturdy, functional, and easy to make. Stamping out that complex part wouldn't be an issue for Weber so I think that those bends exist to preserve airflow and allow embers and ash to fall easier. Once I get my workstation up I'll make a template for the simplified ash bar. Thanks again for the inspiration, Mike!
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My apologies, Lawrence! I spoke (way) too soon. Just came in from a decent once-over of the grill in question, and that bracket is not conducive to full functioning of the ash sweep. It allows the vents to move from full open to full closed, but it does NOT allow the fins to move enough to sweep the ash out of the bowl. I'm not yet sure if this is due to the shape of the bracket, or to its thickness, or both.
Sorry for the false lead.
Guess who's in the market for one of your aftermarket ash can brackets now, buddy? ;-)
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My apologies, Lawrence! I spoke (way) too soon. Just came in from a decent once-over of the grill in question, and that bracket is not conducive to full functioning of the ash sweep. It allows the vents to move from full open to full closed, but it does NOT allow the fins to move enough to sweep the ash out of the bowl. I'm not yet sure if this is due to the shape of the bracket, or to its thickness, or both.
Sorry for the false lead.
Guess who's in the market for one of your aftermarket ash can brackets now, buddy? ;-)
That's interesting, Mike. Thanks for letting us know. Can you elaborate though? Does your bar impede the full range of motion on the sweep handle? It seems like it would be perfectly fine from the pic.
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Can you use a locking setscrew collar in between the "H" to hold the ash sweeper handle in place while retaining the old style ashbar?
(http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/81565.jpg)
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If you are interested in this ash catcher bar, speak up in this thread: http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/weber-kettles-accessories/okay-who-is-really-interested-one-one-of-these/
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I finally got the time to model a new H clip. I increased the tolerances on it to fit the ashbar under the H washer. One thing that concerns me is that the Hbar handle is preloaded such that the key on the handle pops into the H. A low tolerance fit for with the ashbar may cause the collar to rub excessively on the bowl while you rotate the sweep. I'll figure out how to test this out.
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I finally got the time to model a new H clip. I increased the tolerances on it to fit the ashbar under the H washer. One thing that concerns me is that the Hbar handle is preloaded such that the key on the handle pops into the H. A low tolerance fit for with the ashbar may cause the collar to rub excessively on the bowl while you rotate the sweep. I'll figure out how to test this out.
PBE, your onto something here. Me and Aman(ChadA) spoke about this. The male piece legs need to be extended the amount of ash bar thickness. (I'm know engineer) drop the handle holes that amount. I bet Weber has these stamped out, then bends the legs. I don't think there will be a tolerance issue... :o
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PBE, I wouldn't worry about the washer rubbing the kettle bowl. The ones I have with the new style clip installed are all very snug and rotate tightly inside the bowl. The old style ones fit fairly loose from what I can tell, and IMHO don't seal as well as the newer style, even on the newer grills without the bar to hold up the ash can.
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PBE, I wouldn't worry about the washer rubbing the kettle bowl. The ones I have with the new style clip installed are all very snug and rotate tightly inside the bowl. The old style ones fit fairly loose from what I can tell, and IMHO don't seal as well as the newer style, even on the newer grills without the bar to hold up the ash can.
I finally got the time to model a new H clip. I increased the tolerances on it to fit the ashbar under the H washer. One thing that concerns me is that the Hbar handle is preloaded such that the key on the handle pops into the H. A low tolerance fit for with the ashbar may cause the collar to rub excessively on the bowl while you rotate the sweep. I'll figure out how to test this out.
PBE, your onto something here. Me and Aman(ChadA) spoke about this. The male piece legs need to be extended the amount of ash bar thickness. (I'm know engineer) drop the handle holes that amount. I bet Weber has these stamped out, then bends the legs. I don't think there will be a tolerance issue... :o
G, I think you are correct. The sweeps rub on the inside without severely damaging the surface so I won't worry about the outer collar pressing on the bowl.
Mike, I agree with you. I might actually undersize it a bit to get it to fit better.
I forgot to post the pic. Oops!
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I've been back logged on all my project updates but here is the model for the H bracket with added clearance for the old ash catcher bar.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/977782_981504569818_918428143_o.jpg)
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That's what we need. Thanks PBE! If we have that with the new bracket, WOW!
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grate work gummi
id be all over one of those
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Gummi, can I assume that you never built any prototypes of the extended clearance H clip, and therefore can not send me one to test?
;D
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Did ANY get built?
Sent from another planet using Mental Telepathy.
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Gummi, can I assume that you never built any prototypes of the extended clearance H clip, and therefore can not send me one to test?
;D
I didn't build any, unfortunately. But Zavod built some ash catcher bars. The other option too is to grind down the ash sweeper handle to create 40thou of clearance.
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Yep, I rescued an MT for AZMikey, and then I promptly broke the ash sweeper and thumb screw on it. (could not be avoided but still, I should have let him break his own stuff) The support bar is rusty but I think salvageable, so I am looking in to his best option for replacements. Given his access to tools and obvious ability to use them, I think grinding the bar and/or sweeper from an H style is the way to go.
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DIY Stainless support bar with a used 7409 from a trashed 22.5 OTS that I bought for $5 to use the lid for a UDS.
Old
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/Tom_Cphoto/042-1.jpg)
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/Tom_Cphoto/044-3.jpg)
Reused
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/Tom_Cphoto/2065-1.jpg)
New
(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr188/Tom_Cphoto/2068.jpg)
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BTW it works great :D
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Good work, Tom. I'm surprised you were able to reinstall the same ashcatcher!
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Nice, surprised you could save it. Every time I have tried, Thumb screw snaps...
On the same subject, I have and EZ MT that I acquired. The leg holes match perfectly. I went to snap in the ring, to find the hole openings are smaller than the newer kettles. Should I just take a tin snips and reduce the tab size? This will save a 7409 sweep and the purchase of a bracket.
Thanks,
Greg
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Greg, you have a few options:
-Reduce the tab size- I'm not sure how much you need to trim but I don't recall hearing of too many people doing this.
-Expand the slots in the socket with a dremel- probably not the best idea in MN
-Use something else like wire or hose clamps around the sockets to hold the bucket up. This can look clean if done correctly
-Cut slits in the ash catcher ring for the ash catcher bar to hold it up? I haven't heard of anyone doing this but it may be a decent option. Just make sure that the cutouts for the leg sockets are sufficient to keep it from spinning-.
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Greg, you have a few options:
-Reduce the tab size- I'm not sure how much you need to trim but I don't recall hearing of too many people doing this.
-Expand the slots in the socket with a dremel- probably not the best idea in MN
-Use something else like wire or hose clamps around the sockets to hold the bucket up. This can look clean if done correctly
-Cut slits in the ash catcher ring for the ash catcher bar to hold it up? I haven't heard of anyone doing this but it may be a decent option. Just make sure that the cutouts for the leg sockets are sufficient to keep it from spinning-.
Thanks PBE! I am thinking of just making a slight angle cut on all the tabs. They currently go in a little bit, but a tight squeeze. Trying to stay away from a ash catcher bar, that would use up a very valuable 7409 sweep.