Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: Troy on May 05, 2016, 11:19:03 PM
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http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160505/NEWS05/160509876/weber-grills-maker-sues-competitor-in-three-legged-case
I'm no lawyer, so I will not express any opinions on this :)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2016/05/06/weber-vs-charbroil.png)
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The public has been confused for years!
(http://images.craigslist.org/00A0A_eJe3VIjQLZb_1200x900.jpg)
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Weber just got done with a lawsuit against Sears , they live in litigation !
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Looked at the "kettleman" in a lowes couple months back...
Super sized lid damper, otherwise Unimpressed
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As i recall, Weber successfully trademarked the actual silhouette of the kettle.
I'm not sure if that only applies to logos and images... or if it applies to grills too.
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Well, whatever. Two total different qualities, but I can see there side. Walmart carries a kettle style as well. Similar, but not built to last imo.
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As i recall, Weber successfully trademarked the actual silhouette of the kettle.
I'm not sure if that only applies to logos and images... or if it applies to grills too.
In the late 80s Weber went after several charcoal grill manufactures , claiming the shape of their kettle grill was an integral part of function . They claimed the ability to control flame ups and snuff the coals as some of the reasons . The other manufactures lined up and opposed Weber stating that the shape mattered little and any grill with a lid be it round , square or any shape would perform the same functions as a Weber and so Webers claim on the shape was lost, leaving companies the ability to recreate a kettle style grill but not to copy the Weber itself or its logo
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As i recall, Weber successfully trademarked the actual silhouette of the kettle.
I'm not sure if that only applies to logos and images... or if it applies to grills too.
In the late 80s Weber went after several charcoal grill manufactures , claiming the shape of their kettle grill was an integral part of function . They claimed the ability to control flame ups and snuff the coals as some of the reasons . The other manufactures lined up and opposed Weber stating that the shape mattered little and any grill with a lid be it round , square or any shape would perform the same functions as a Weber and so Webers claim on the shape was lost, leaving companies the ability to recreate a kettle style grill but not to copy the Weber itself or its logo
Very interesting!
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They don't look the same to me. Is BGE going to sue Weber because the Summit grill looks egg shaped?
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I saw a Kettleman in BJs the other day. A ridiculously large, centered lid vent. It looked silly, imo.
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Weber just got done with a lawsuit against Sears , they live in litigation !
I wonder if Weber would be suing if they were still family-owned? I'll just let that sink in for a bit...
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I understand there are important functional and asthetic differences with Kettleman, but a company is going to protect their idea if it gets within sniffing difference. Char-Broil is no Happy Cooker; they have deep pockets.
I'd like to see Weber-Stephen educate the public better about what they sell, and what makes them different. Hardware stores don't give a crap about anything they do, or why.
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This is a copy cat of a WSM! Has any seen or used one of these?
http://muskegon.craigslist.org/for/5519065576.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/33a4b755e24be4ed7d771db60a2aacb2.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2b4a3692e65b86b72c47498629b005c9.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/936078db803b720c5f1b65d7f9b4e90c.jpg)
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Weber just got done with a lawsuit against Sears , they live in litigation !
I wonder if Weber would be suing if they were still family-owned? I'll just let that sink in for a bit...
Yes they would, and they have.
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This is a copy cat of a WSM! Has any seen or used one of these?
http://muskegon.craigslist.org/for/5519065576.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/33a4b755e24be4ed7d771db60a2aacb2.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/2b4a3692e65b86b72c47498629b005c9.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160514/936078db803b720c5f1b65d7f9b4e90c.jpg)
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It's a Napoleon Apollo smoker , made in Canada and not bad units at all !
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With the exception of the three legs, I personally think that the Masterbuilt is as close or even closer to the Weber, even has the ash catcher.
BD
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It's a Napoleon Apollo smoker , made in Canada and not bad units at all !
@Idahawk , Well, Napoleon being a Canadian company, in fact their factory is in the very town I live in …
The Apollo smoker is actually made in China. All of their charcoal line-up is made in China.
A co-worker has the Apollo unit. He likes it, but says that it's a fuel hog for long cooks.
I had originally recommended that he get a WSM, but he ended up getting this instead.
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Not to mention the Pro Q smokers as well that make the 'bullet' type smoker that are very popular.
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They don't look the same to me. Is BGE going to sue Weber because the Summit grill looks egg shaped?
No but a good question though. There is a guy by the name of Richard Johnson who filed a patent on a type of Kamado years ago. By all accounts he had some very shady business dealings. That being said all the Kamado manufacturers would have done some due diligence on this matter.
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It's a Napoleon Apollo smoker , made in Canada and not bad units at all !
@Idahawk , Well, Napoleon being a Canadian company, in fact their factory is in the very town I live in …
The Apollo smoker is actually made in China. All of their charcoal line-up is made in China.
A co-worker has the Apollo unit. He likes it, but says that it's a fuel hog for long cooks.
I had originally recommended that he get a WSM, but he ended up getting this instead.
Didn't know that about China , similar to the Weber Ducane connection I guess . Cheap material cost over there .
I liked the seal that I got from the snap together segments and didn't notice unusual fuel usage but I only used mine for 3 cooks and sold it to a gal who wanted to do comps
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Weber just got done with a lawsuit against Sears , they live in litigation !
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It seems to be the sign of the times. Like a well known smart phone company who also likes litigation rather than innovation.
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There is no need to sue. I had a chance to examine a kettleman in a store today. What a colossal pile of shit. You have no control over the lower vents. The grate would suck to clean and not made to last. I took the grates out and there's all kinds of little hardware bits that won't last. Ash pan is terrible. Other than that it's great. [emoji12]
I actually kind of like the huge damper on top. You could probably really crank the heat on it.
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Weber and the W.C. Bradley Co. (Founded 1885) (The parent company of Char-Broil brand launched in 1944) have been at odds for decades. I'd go so far to say it was Char-Broil that forced Weber to rethink their gas grill category in the early 80s to move away from the gas kettle and develop the Genesis line. IMHO at the end of the day, Weber's product, gas or charcoal is superior to Char-Broil's. Period. It's no wonder Char-Broil has been trying to copy or emulate the kettle in various forms for years.
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I work in intellectual property so these Weber lawsuits always interest me. Weber is definitely no stranger to IP litigation (e.g. Happy Cooker). Apparently there was a 1973 suit between Weber and CharBroil in which Weber sued for patent, trade mark and trade dress infringement for CharBroil's Webster grill. The companies reached a settlement where CharBroil was allowed to sell off inventory provided it didn't use the Webster name.
In this case, Weber sued for trademark infringement based on three trademarks:
1,478,530 (three-dimensional pictorial representation of kettle portion for “barbeque grills”)
1,479,505 (two-dimensional silhouette for “barbeque grills”)
1,481,521 (three-dimensional pictorial representation of three-legged kettle grill design for “barbeque grills”)
If you want to see exactly what the trademarks are you can look them up here (https://www.uspto.gov/trademark) using the TSS link.
More recently, Char-Broil has filed a counter-suit in this case alleging breach of contract and antitrust violations stemming from Weber's misuse of trademark law.
For some prospective, the USPTO defines trademark infringement as:
"Trademark infringement is the unauthorized use of a trademark or service mark on or in connection with goods and/or services in a manner that is likely to cause confusion, deception, or mistake about the source of the goods and/or services."
Additionally, for infringement "the parties' goods and/or services are sufficiently related that consumers are likely to assume (mistakenly) that they come from a common source" (https://www.uspto.gov/page/about-trademark-infringement)
I could go on and on, but this one will be interesting to follow.
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@Neil_VT00 I had no idea you were involved. I've spent quite a bit of time on the topic myself, including many hours in federal courts supporting patents, trade dress and trade marks for companies I've been a part of. So much of what goes on is behind the curtain so to speak. (Like the time I had to rip-off my own design so we could create a patent shield around the product that went to market.) I find it fascinating. These high profile visible cases are the exception. One thing is for sure; companies like Weber have to be willing to go on the offense against anything remotely similar to their IP, or risk losing the strength of their patents. Iconic products like Weber kettles earn special protections over time beyond the utility and design patents they may have owned at one time, but are long expired - like all of mine are.
Maybe we need a patent/legal forum....
OK, maybe not.
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Holy crap boys. I just checked and all I have is a bunch of Walmart crap and some stuff that reads made in Barrie Ontario Canada. The fire sale is on.