Weber Kettle Club Forums
Cooking & Food Talk => Charcoal Grilling & BBQ => Topic started by: addicted-to-smoke on June 09, 2015, 08:14:32 AM
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I watched Franklin's first episode with my dad, for inspiration, covering ( of course) brisket. http://video.pbs.org/program/bbq-franklin/ and yes I am naturally attracted to anything that is at once simple but potentially elusive.
I initially intended to use the 26"s extra breathing room but my takeaway from Episode 1 was something I already knew, mentioned right up front in the show: change only 1 thing while learning. Since the majority of my cooks will be on a 22, that's what I used instead.
What we have here is a smaller one, about 5.5lbs, trimmed to about 1/4" except for the tip which was left at about 1/2" by the butcher. Edit: Or maybe I have point and flat parts reversed.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/fatcapbroadside.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/fatcappoint.jpg)
Dad likes Montreal Steak seasoning and so we started with that but ran out after doing only the fat side. Oops. Kosher salt and coarse ground black pepper for the "meat" side. I'm starting it naked and may foil it at some time later. I honestly don't have a full plan here, except that I didn't want to foil it the whole time and have no butcher's paper for "central Texas" style. As you can see, it's not super heavy seasoning so I don't expect a tremendous bark to it; this will likely influence my decision to foil sooner rather than later.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/seasoned.jpg)
I surrounded a rectangular drip tray with Kingsford Competition, 2x1 rows with hickory chips sprinkled throughout. About 14? or so were lit to begin the fuse. Lid = 250, grate = 225 with top lid open, intakes half open.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/225degrees.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketkettlesetup.jpg)
I put it on at 9:40, with the point farthest away from the heat and would like to take it off around 5:30 or 6 but at this point am not sure if that'll work. Any insights are appreciated.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketbegin.jpg)
As I type this, my dad's checked the lid thermo and he says it now only reports 210, so I'm supposing what's happened is that bigger pile ran out in this first 90 minutes and the snake doesn't have enough to sustain the heat. I forgot his kettle seals better than mine I had him open the intakes fully. I'll check it in a few.
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I run my vents wide open with a 2x2x1 snake most of the way around it.
Looks like you are off to a good start..I love me some Brisket!
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11:45, two hours into it.
Thanks Indy.
My fire was dying with only about 3-4 coals lit. Pretty sure my charcoal arrangement wasn't packed/stacked tightly enough to engage enough of the rest.
I added a few more to end of the existing and they caught right away, and probably doubled the rest of the snake so if nothing else should allow enough of them to catch as they go around. The drip pan is also acting as somewhat of a barrier to prevent too many from falling away from the pack.
Back up to 230 now; gonna let it ride up to whatever it wants to do this next hour to make up for lost time and then next hour take it back down in temp if necessary.
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45 minutes later, 12:30, I looked. Lid at 400, grate 350. LOL I guess it "caught up" so I closed down the intakes a bunch.
Variables? What variables? :) We're doing precision work here.
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1:25, I can see now that by my posted times I'm starting to peek at it sooner and sooner. :)
So, been reading. Because I don't have a whole packer I'm told my tenderness challenge is greater, and greater still if I have a "hunk of flat" (which, I don't know if I do?)
Cooker's been at about 250-260 for the last hour. I just closed it a little more, down probably to 1/4 open on the bottom. About half the charcoal is gone and I hope for a roughly 7-8 hr cook that's OK.
That fat-side up sure doesn't look like much fat, now, so something's happening.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/briskethalfway.jpg)
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It's making me hungry!!!
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2:30, about 5hrs on the
smoker, er grill I mean ... Temps taken at two spots was high 160s to low 170s
I wrapped it in foil and gave a little water spritz before closing it up. The bark, such as it is, isn't this prominent in real life. And foiling won't "help" that either, but at this point I'm wanting tenderness and not presentation so much.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisket5hrs.jpg)
I'm assuming 2 hours from now, 5:00 would be too early to pull off the grill. 6:00 would be great also but I don't think I'll be able to hold back the crowd past 6:30. So yes I'm fretting about not having time to let it rest much, whenever it does appear finished. Around 4-4:30 I might just crank up the machine and start using the rest of the fuel to get us to the home stretch
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Looking beauty so far. When a toothpick goes in like warm butter and comes out with no resistance she be done. Wrap and let rest till internal hits about 160f then carve only what you are going to eat. Wrap the rest in parchment for storage....foil will make it a little mushy I find.
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As I mentioned above, it was already higher than that 30 mins ago when I added the foil. I'm under the impression brisket needs to be much closer to 200 before the process is stopped?
Not sure at what temp I can pull it at and let it finish on its own up to there. For example if I pull it off at 180 I can't imagine it would "find" 20 additional degrees on its own sitting in an insulated cooler or whatever. What am I not understanding here?
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It's hard to tell exactly what piece you might have there @ 5-1/2#...........
This:
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketbegin.jpg)
....looks like it may be mostly flat, with some point area on top.....where you can see the reddish meat in a "U" shape there is where they will come apart if that's so..........
Where you want to test for tender is in the lower portion, right below that "U" headed toward the top of the picture......that's your "slide easy probe tender" / "knife thru warm butter" area to aim for......
One thing I've found from watching UDS & WSM cooks is to at least start fatcap down, to sort of protect it from the heat......it helps a little with kettles also, as the heat is so close......
Finishing temp is halfway useless on these things.....anywhere from 185 ~208, depending a lot on where you test......
That looks really good, the stall will end when it starts to rise into the higher 170's.....if it lags much, let it go back up to 275~300.....the cow can take it....esp. after you've cooked away for awhile.....
Let rest, breathing a bit, as long as you can stand to.......if it drops to 160 or even a bit lower, you'll be fine......rest is real important, as it has worked very hard to bring you juicy goodness........... ;D
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I cook to 200f before checking. Usually about 204f is the magic number for me.
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4:30pm
5 hrs naked, 2 hrs foiled
I poked it in several places, getting anywhere from 190-205. With the "instant" thermometer it seems to glide in fairly darn easily.
I turned off the machine and will put it into a low-temp kitchen oven now, I suppose, with foil. Or maybe just let it rest in the machine since this kettle cools down pretty fast and it's about 85 degrees outside. Dad has no cooler, etc here.
Actually I also have to start cooking the sweet potatoes now! Second machine about to fire up, I'm behind on that now ...
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Actually, instead of firing up the second kettle I used the second kettle to rest it and setup the already-hot 22 for the potatoes so they can start ASAP. Full chimney of charcoal nearly ready.
It's not quite 5:00. I've turned on the kitchen oven for 200 (it takes a long time to heat up) and will let the brisket stay foiled in there for about 30 minutes or so before resting on the counter 30-45 minutes until carving. Hope all this works!
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How did it probe?
It will seem like you're going to fall right thru the meat in behind the probe when it's right......at that point, just let it rest loosely wrapped not under more heating.....or it will get overdone & dry....
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As best as I could manage, my thermometer was my "probe." I thought it went in pretty easily, but what do I know? Fall through, maybe not so much.
It's still wrapped in foil, but sitting in the 200 degree oven. I don't *think* it should dry out like that in the next 30 mins? At that point I intend to yank it and put it on a large serving plate covered loosely with the au jus drippings I saved from the cook.
Hope all this works! X2
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Looking great, A-T-S! Can't wait to see the results...
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Hurry up. I want to see the results. ;D Some day I want to try a brisket.
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Nate I know you would totally nail it ... because I just did!
Everyone raved. Nice and tender although it wouldn't win a competition. Had to slightly cut with a knife, but nearly did pull apart without it. Very tasty, too. Even the bark sorta perked up, didn't think it would.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketonplatter.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketslice.jpg)
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2015/06/09/brisketplated.jpg)
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Yep, just right !!!!
Not dry & crumbly at the edges & looks dang moist too !!!!
Good show, man !!!!!!!!!
What was the holding / resting or finishing setup?
If you pull gently from each end of a slice it should pull apart easily......from the look of it, it will.....again, nice cookup!!!!
I just saw a thing about it @ Bretheren am going to put up a quick thread with the link to the article...... ;D
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... What was the holding / resting or finishing setup? ....
Unless this conflicts with what I typed above, I moved it to an unused (cold) kettle for about 15 mins and then to the kitchen oven set at about 200 for about 30 mins. I used that temp on the chance my temp readings outside were a little less than ideal since some weren't yet to 200. And also because the oven won't go below 170 anyway (I tried.)
And then on top of the stove (a little more than room temp) for almost 45 more minutes to bring it down.
The math doesn't quite add up but it rested/held for 1.5hrs, maybe a touch longer I suppose. It stayed foiled the whole time. Carved just enough slices to eat and served.
One thing I found interesting about most of the online searches regarding brisket is that everyone says for best results do a whole packer, and so none of the cook or resting times apply to these smaller pieces. How much longer would that have been? Would I have needed to use the 26?
Even though I waited to foil it until it was already into the stall (160s/170s) I was still surprised it reached done temp in "only" 2 hours, I don't know why I was surprised unless it's because I have so little experience BBQing to these higher temps I usually have run out of time first. I had visions of it being dinner time and the meat not much beyond 180.
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Wow ATS, looks incredible! Super moist looking, I'd say you nailed it, and great play by play too
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... What was the holding / resting or finishing setup? ....
Unless this conflicts with what I typed above, I moved it to an unused (cold) kettle for about 15 mins and then to the kitchen oven set at about 200 for about 30 mins. I used that temp on the chance my temp readings outside were a little less than ideal since some weren't yet to 200. And also because the oven won't go below 170 anyway (I tried.)
And then on top of the stove (a little more than room temp) for almost 45 more minutes to bring it down.
The math doesn't quite add up but it rested/held for 1.5hrs, maybe a touch longer I suppose. It stayed foiled the whole time. Carved just enough slices to eat and served.
One thing I found interesting about most of the online searches regarding brisket is that everyone says for best results do a whole packer, and so none of the cook or resting times apply to these smaller pieces. How much longer would that have been? Would I have needed to use the 26?
Even though I waited to foil it until it was already into the stall (160s/170s) I was still surprised it reached done temp in "only" 2 hours, I don't know why I was surprised unless it's because I have so little experience BBQing to these higher temps I usually have run out of time first. I had visions of it being dinner time and the meat not much beyond 180.
Smaller pieces are harder as you don't have as much fat cap to protect it. I do my brisket fat side up to allow the fat to melt into it. I have read so many times "cook it until X temp" I call BS each piece of meat will cook differently due to tendon makeup and fat content and when you wrap it in foil or butcher paper it will give up sooner and it will probe like butter!
ATS I would say you nailed it brother, it looks real moist!
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Thanks, that was fun Learning...
(http://www.bz2-img.com/images_customers/09/72/2432733_33373_full.jpg)
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Question, maybe @1buckie can answer. Last brisket I made was tender but a bit dry. Crumbly edges. Probed tender @ 205, but I wrapped right away, no "loosely wrapped" rest, and into cooler w/towels for 2.5 hrs. Not a lot of juice when I unwrapped it. Should I let it rest for a period before tightly wrapping and putting in cooler?
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So bladz, you cooked it naked to 205 and THEN wrapped it?
Might have overcooked it and/or not wrapped it soon enough, i.e. during the cook.
That said, of course not everyone wraps brisket at any time.
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@bladz ....A-t-S has got it.......if dry & crumbly, , then overshot the ending by a bit....
If it's a little tough & seems dry, but sort of hard to slice, then under cooked.....
What Ron says about smaller pieces also rings true.....less fatcap makes it a bit easier to overdo it, but also the weird thing is that a smaller piece may take almost as long as a great big one.......doesn't go by weight so much as it does thickness.......the heat still has to get down inside & melt down the collagen......
A few things I've learned from watching people that really know these things & do them all the time are:
Go by probe tender, an internal temp will just tell you approximately when to start watching....
If you wrap during the cook, it can be for bark or color & that will speed up the stall time (approx. from 155~175) usually quite a bit.....
If you wrap to rest, let it breathe for 10~20 minutes first, to slow the cooking somewhat, or.....the piece (this is in foil, not paper) will likely continue to cook if too much heat is trapped in.....
I go one of two ways.....
Either nekkid the whole cook & foiled to rest, or....
open up to the stall, then up on a low cookie rack in a pan, a little broth to start off the au jus & the pan foiled over for the rest of the cook.......
Deciding factor is if it looks like it's dumping a lot of juice, then go for the save.......if it seems a little drier on the outside, then maybe spritz once or twice late in the cook & just let it go.......
... What was the holding / resting or finishing setup? ....
Unless this conflicts with what I typed above, I moved it to an unused (cold) kettle for about 15 mins and then to the kitchen oven set at about 200 for about 30 mins. I used that temp on the chance my temp readings outside were a little less than ideal since some weren't yet to 200. And also because the oven won't go below 170 anyway (I tried.)
And then on top of the stove (a little more than room temp) for almost 45 more minutes to bring it down.
The math doesn't quite add up but it rested/held for 1.5hrs, maybe a touch longer I suppose. It stayed foiled the whole time. Carved just enough slices to eat and served.
One thing I found interesting about most of the online searches regarding brisket is that everyone says for best results do a whole packer, and so none of the cook or resting times apply to these smaller pieces. How much longer would that have been? Would I have needed to use the 26?
Even though I waited to foil it until it was already into the stall (160s/170s) I was still surprised it reached done temp in "only" 2 hours, I don't know why I was surprised unless it's because I have so little experience BBQing to these higher temps I usually have run out of time first. I had visions of it being dinner time and the meat not much beyond 180.
That worked just right.......I've seen some people say start the oven up, then just turn it off & set the piece in, for a resting.....others say, just set it on the counter & let the temp fall to 155 or thereabouts....either way, or wrapped in a cooler, after a breather will work fine.....
Killer job on that piece, man........nary a crumble & excessive moisture.....the sweet spot !!!!
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Looks great. I loved watching Aaron Franklin do the comparison on rapping brisket. I've looked for red un-waxed paper with no luck. I've cooked may brisket un-rapped and love the results. Above 190 when the probe slides in with no effort is when I pull then rap in foil and a old towel and set in a cooler to rest. Good luck let the force be with you brother!
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Looks great. I loved watching Aaron Franklin do the comparison on rapping brisket. I've looked for red un-waxed paper with no luck. I've cooked may brisket un-rapped and love the results. Above 190 when the probe slides in with no effort is when I pull then rap in foil and a old towel and set in a cooler to rest. Good luck let the force be with you brother!
Trying looking for "peach paper". You can usually find it by the roll or sheet.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Looks great. I loved watching Aaron Franklin do the comparison on rapping brisket. I've looked for red un-waxed paper with no luck. I've cooked may brisket un-rapped and love the results. Above 190 when the probe slides in with no effort is when I pull then rap in foil and a old towel and set in a cooler to rest. Good luck let the force be with you brother!
Trying looking for "peach paper". You can usually find it by the roll or sheet.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks, I was wondering about that. Found this, seems to come in 4 different widths.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/18-x-700-40-peach-treated-butcher-paper-roll/43318PEA.html
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Thanks I'll have to give that a try.
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Sorry,should have clarified. I wrapped at 165, in foil, returned to smoker till probe tender. Then at that point, I put in a cooler w/towels. I didn't unwrap and rest between probe tender and cooler, just put it straight in the cooler.
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I have read in the book "wicked good BBQ" that opening the foil for a few minutes before the cooler rest will help stop the cooking process. That may have been the issue. Perhaps the bounce pushed you too far