I knew it leaked air, always wanting to run high. But that doesn't work for an overnight smoke. Nevertheless I loaded it up since it's chilly outside (mid 30s) and set it going with 10 or so hot coals.
350 degrees with vents mostly closed. Aw crap. Makes a nice grill, doesn't it? Closed ALL vents, 275. Blah. Arduously removed coals into the kettle. 215 now. Fine, meat on (alb pork butt) and added about 10 mostly-spent hot coals to offset impending heat loss. 260 ... 225 not long after.
I think this is why I started just doing snakes on the kettle. That thing locks into 225 like nobody's business.
It leaks around the door and it leaks where the lid meets the middle section. Perhaps it leaks at the bottom too but since smoke doesn't come out down low I can't see. Yeah, 212 now. Out to add more coals.
This your first time smoking on it?
If so, two comments: 1) it will take a few smokes to seal up, 2) it will take a few smokes to figure out how to dial it in.
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Is it a 22.5"? If so, that door is crap and must be replaced by a Cajun bandit door. The metal is too flimsy and the door hole is too big to create a good seal. I couldn't get the smoker under 300 without the new door. Now I can hold whatever temp I want with no problems.
18.5" and I've used it a few times before but mostly it sits on the deck. Might be my first winter smoke with it, the rest always ran fast though. Part of my initial problem was that my cherry chunks caught too soon despite being close to the outside of the ring and away from center charcoal.
Been slowly adding back hot coals I'd removed plus some, about every hour. Nursing it steady at 230-ish. Another trip back out soon to add more of the mostly-spent coals but add some cold (completely unlit) ones now too, to take it through longer while I get a nap. Meat's been on 3 hrs, 110 degrees. Got a feeling the Maverick's gonna wake me up in a few hours at 160 to wrap.
All vents still closed and at this rate I don't think I'll open them at all.
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on February 14, 2016, 09:37:02 PM
18.5" and I've used it a few times before but mostly it sits on the deck. Might be my first winter smoke with it, the rest always ran fast though. Part of my initial problem was that my cherry chunks caught too soon despite being close to the outside of the ring and away from center charcoal.
Been slowly adding back hot coals I'd removed plus some, about every hour. Nursing it steady at 230-ish. Another trip back out soon to add more of the mostly-spent coals but add some cold (completely unlit) ones now too, to take it through longer while I get a nap. Meat's been on 3 hrs, 110 degrees. Got a feeling the Maverick's gonna wake me up in a few hours at 160 to wrap.
All vents still closed and at this rate I don't think I'll open them at all.
Have you done some smoke leak tests on it while it is empty? You can burn some newspaper in it to see where it leaks and adjust accordingly
Closest I came to that was a few days ago when attempting to burn out some mold with lighter fluid. It leaks where the lid meets the middle section and around the door, which I've previously tried to bend back into shape. I don't think anything significant leaks at the bottom.
1:30 was the next hour but it was doing well and so I let it die down to 205. Just added maybe 20 unlit K Comp, gave a light stir to the rest + about 4-5 smaller cherry chunks to help power through. Temp is slowly going back up after losing heat through door when adding charcoal, 212 now and meat's 122.
Once these coals and cherry light it'll climb above 250 but I don't care. It can do that and then die down again. I just gotta catch some winks. It would be great if it goes to at least 5am before either the meat gets to 160 or the fire dies again.
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on February 14, 2016, 10:36:52 PM... It would be great if it goes to at least 5am before either the meat gets to 160 or the fire dies again.
At 5am the buzzer dings at low heat. Another 15-20 unlit coals added. Meat was maybe 145. Somewhere between 5 and 7am the dinger dinged a few times as it crossed over the 250 threshold; it hadn't gotten that hot on the last go-round that saw the same amount of fresh fuel + the wood chunks, not added at 5am.
At 7am it buzzed again. I didn't look at it, I just got up and figured the meat was ready to wrap. Quickly wrapped in a foil pan and added some cherry Dr. Pepper to the pan (part of the recipe ...) During this time I noticed the meat was not at 160 but was at 154. Whatever, it'll get there soon enough.
Soon came an hour later, so that's an hour more sleep I could have had. Temps are dancing around 250, so the buzzer buzzes dutifully each time it closes 250.
I have sealed my 18.5 with bbqgaskets.com kit. but I never had that hard of a time without the kit. I added to kit to run a stoker better. How did you start the fire? Minion method? Did you use water?
I ordered the LavaLock gaskets from BBQSmokersupply.com
No water. I lit the first batch with my Performer in a small chimney. Minion method with Harry Soo "crater." I'll look into the gaskets.
On my most recent charcoal addition I did about 3 shallow scoops (Weber ash scoop) and since the sun had now come up could better see to move them around better. With 2 vents slightly open it's at 270 to better beat the shit out of the stall; meat's been about 175-180.
We're rooting for you, ATS. Let us help you troubleshoot the leak before your next cook so you'll be able to sleep next time. Keep us posted.
Meat made it to 192 before charcoal began to die, and another "regular application" of charcoal was pointless. It's not super cold here but it's taken a few chimney's worth of lit lump to get it moving past that temp. Been running around 370 degrees for about an hour. Meat's just now at 205, going to go and take it off, wrap in towel and toss into cooler. 15 1/2 hours on the smoker for one freakin' butt.
I hate the door. If nothing else I want the newer kind with the lever handle instead of the knob. But it should fit better. Hopefully the Cajun SS door for older WSMs can take the newer L-shaped handle. I may try that combo.
Walked outside and the smell is indescribable. Talk about magic, and I haven't even unwrapped it yet. If I EVER remove one of these before 200 degrees somebody shoot me.
Quote from: swamprb on February 15, 2016, 05:37:08 AM
I ordered the LavaLock gaskets from BBQSmokersupply.com
So, these? http://www.bbqsmokersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_13&products_id=102
I see the other place sells a kit for $7 more, http://bbqgaskets.com/catalog_4.html
I haven't needed the gaskets, I think that the more you use it, the more stuff collects in that gap, the more it seals.
But I'm 110% on board with the Cajun Bandit door. I've got them on both of mine.
Also, my adaptation to the minion method is to use an old Bush Baked Beans can with both ends cut out. I set it in the charcoal ring and load my coals all around it, Then I dump my hot coals into the can and pull it out with a set of pliers.
BD
I am using the lavarock from that site as well. Using it on a 22. It helped me a lot.
Going to order the Cajun Bandit pimp kit with the rotisserie, door, and charcoal ring one day. Wonder if the door will fit with the gasket or will I have to peel it off.
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As I said, I don't have a gasket on mine, I know people who do have them and use the Cajun door.
BD
Delicious!
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/bbq-food-pics/cherry-dr-pepper-pulled-pork/new/#new
Man, hate that you had to chase it around all night. The glory of the wsm is that you shouldn't have to do that.
My 22 is kind of leaky too, but seems to hold temps well, even though I haven't tried sub 250 so now I'm curious.
Did you try to catch the temp on the way up? I think shutting the vents down to nearly closed around 25-50 below your target should help.
Especially with a leaky one, I wouldn't be afraid to close all three vents all the way.
Can't wait to go over and see the cook!
Quote from: Big Dawg on February 15, 2016, 01:31:42 PM
I haven't needed the gaskets, I think that the more you use it, the more stuff collects in that gap, the more it seals.
But I'm 110% on board with the Cajun Bandit door. I've got them on both of mine.
Also, my adaptation to the minion method is to use an old Bush Baked Beans can with both ends cut out. I set it in the charcoal ring and load my coals all around it, Then I dump my hot coals into the can and pull it out with a set of pliers.
BD
While this is true in an ideal world, there are so many non-precision interfaces on the WSM that can leak to cause it to run super hot. If one of your pieces is oblonged, no amount of grime will get it to seal.
Only reason I'm going to seal one of mine up is I'm using a Hunsaker Smokers Vortex Firebasket. If ever you had runaway HIGH temps on a 22" bullet, you'd do the same.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/swamprb/Ugly%20Drum%20Smoker/Weber/IMG_2102.jpg)
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on February 15, 2016, 03:02:23 PM
Delicious!
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/bbq-food-pics/cherry-dr-pepper-pulled-pork/new/#new
Fuel was a combination of K-Comp, K-Hickory, cherry chunks, K-Blue and lump. DON'T ASK.
After seeing this in your cook thread, I wonder if it contributed to any trouble regulating temps..
I wish your experience was more like mine. I have done only 3-4 cooks on my WSM and encountered temps to remain fairly constant. However, I let the cooker settle where it naturally wants to.
To summarize my process:
- Light approx 1/2 chimney of charcoal
- Fill charcoal basket and bury 5-10 wood chunks (depending on size)
- I randomly scatter lit charcoal on unlit charcoal
- Let warm until approx 225 deg
- Close 2 vents, leave 1 vent about 1/4 open
- Monitor temp until it seems to stabilize (usually around 275)
- If temp stabilized usually you should have TBS, if not wait till it clears up a little
- Add meat
- Monitor temp to verify it remains stable
ATS,
The other sign that things are out of round is that when you shut all of the vents the coals don't extinguish.
If I was you I would check to see if any of my WSM parts were out of round before I spent any money on gaskets and a door.
The bottom of the center section gets out of round pretty easily, and the top of the center section, charcoal bowl, and lid can too.
Use a measuring tape to take multiple diameter measurements of all three pieces. If they are round you should have consistent diameter measurements. If they are off by more than 1/8 inch I would gently squeeze them until I had consistent measurements.
Most of my WSMs have required this treatment. All have stock doors with no gaskets and all hold temps at about 275 with bottom vents 1/3 open.
Imo it takes a handful of smokes to know how to run the wsm at target temp...i add the 8-10 coals and then shut down all vents..the temp will always jump to high 200s...i come back in about 15-20 mins..and check back 15 mins cycles till i see the temp cycling down..once its in drop mode around 250..i will slightly open 1 -2 vents (open about 15%)..usually about 20 mins later i will see the temp stabilize around 225/230...this is a constant startup process for both 14 and 18".
Total startup time after dropping first hot coals is usually around 45 mins or little less to stable temp..thereafter she will hold temp until coals get low and then i open up the vents as required to keep temps up.
I have zero mods to my wsm other then upgrading all connecting hardware to SS.
Including stock door...the wsm is seasoned well enough where there is zero leakage in any part of the wsm.
I think the usual beginner error is underestimating how sensitive vent adjustments are during initial fireup...once a wsm accelerates heat it takes a long time to pull it back
When I initially got this lit up, with too much happening, I saw smoke leak at the top, not the bottom even though the middle section does require a slight "placement" down into the bowl. Overall I think it fits together well but that the lid isn't designed to seal as well as the middle section-to-bowl.
I'm interested in sealing the top and door for sure but since I'd be getting a kit or roll, would presumably have enough to include the bottom too.
And I know I lit too many to start, a full (smaller) chimney.
The 18.5" I bought my brother-in-law last year hasn't been used yet, partly because he doesn't know how/hasn't been interested to explore and partly because I'm not often in town long enough to assist. BUT, I remember his middle section fits his bowl poorly and I wasn't able to bend it back very well. I'd want to work on his sealing better before him having an initial bad experience. Maybe there's a thicker/uglier gasket for that situation.
Sounds like the body is out of round. While not deterring an owner from their mod intents..i would try to get the body back in round condition..which youd want to do regardlesd of adding gaskets...i may also suggest to get a half dozen smokes done and then checking leakage. Mine leaked everywhere until i got past first half dozen smokes then it sealed up . I patiently waited for seasoning to build bc i didnt want to add gaskets..gaskets will fail and need to be replaced ..not a maintenance chore i wanted to get stuck with. Imo slight leaks will not impact heat temps....
I think the high heat during startup you can figure out with reducing lot coals and also ahutting down vents after adding coals and waiting for the temp to start dropping then adjusting vents to catch target temp..
Good luck with whichever path you take.
Sounds great but I just can't leave it gunked up. I don't smoke enough for that and stuff would inevitably start growing. My main kettle is used several times a week so except for ash I don't care much about gunk there. Or am I missing something basic here? I also don't necessarily want to get gaskets and then be scraping them off later when worn.
@addicted-to-smoke, never fear we're all hear. I'll just mention (what 1buckie would remind us) that every Pork Shoulder is different. My usual L&S for pulled pork is well below the Valentines day massacre I made this past Sunday. That little piggy, about 9lbs bone-in, was too lean and sinewy, hit the stall at 151-154F and I finally gave up and wrapped it in foil (wasn't originally going to do the Tex Crutch) until it hit 203F. AND my WSM is an 18er and quite sealed up. Sometimes it's not the you, sometimes it's not the equipment, and sometimes it's not the pork, and sometimes it's all three. Like they say: "you pay your money and you take your chances". My total cook time was 7:30 pm to 11:30 am and that's with an ATC on the inlet vent. Sixteen hours and it was just to hot to pull for the party :( SJ
Dont think you are missing anything...
The high heat i think can be cured with less coals and the startup process i shared...i dont think slight air leaking is causing uncontrollable temps...try the startup process and i think you will be all set..it takes a few smokes to know how to get stable temp during fireup
The leaking will cure itself. The air leaks will pull the grease and stuff towards the leaky areas.. and that will concentrate the stuff needed to seal the wsm to the point you dont see smoke leaking..i think wood chunk smoke exaggerates the oerceived air leak you may have...id give it a few more smokes if you want to avoid gaskets...
Gaskets wont cure incorrect startup process...
Ibhavent installed any gaskets..but in reality any/every gasket fails..especially when subjected to high heats and left outdoors (see postings about replacing bge gaskets...bge owners have to routinely replace their gaskets)
Re: mold...i just sponge lightly scrub the inside down or use a ss grill brush..hose it down..scrub just enough to remove mold but not all the seasoning ..then i place my grates in the smoker without the bowl and let the heat clean the body and grates during initial fireup.
Quote from: toolhead on February 18, 2016, 04:46:48 PM
Dont think you are missing anything...
The high heat i think can be cured with less coals and the startup process i shared...i dont think slight air leaking is causing uncontrollable temps...try the startup process and i think you will be all set..it takes a few smokes to know how to get stable temp during fireup
I agree completely. My 18 leaks like a sieve but the key for me has been set up using the minion method and starting out with 1/3-1/2 a chimney and closing down the bottom vents and catching control well before temps get away from me. I don't have the Cajun bandit. I have smoke leaking out of the door and the top but don't hav problems getting it to lock in for long periods of time so long as ai start out with fewer hot coals and catch the temps well before they reach my target.