Hello all, I'm about to add the Mastertouch 22 to my arsenal. My main baby is my 18" WSM. Flo has had many of good smokes in her belly over the last couple of years.
Here's my issue. The Mastertouch comes with the charcoal Fuel holder. If I want to do a light smoke, I can throw some wood chips on top, and have the fuel holders set up in indirect. Bingo, I'm smoking...
So, what's the point of the smokenator? Does the smokenator do anything different from what I just described?
Thanks, while I'm no newbie to smoking, I'm just learning the kettle game.
I kinda see it as indirect+. Charcoal basket with a heat deflector.
I'm sure it holds more coals than a basket tho
Sure, you can toss in some chips or small chunks anytime.....here's medium hickory chips added to personal sized turkey meatloafs...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-10-2013%20%20Bacon/3-10-2013Bacon081.jpg)
adds in a nice extra layer of flavor.....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/3-10-2013%20%20Bacon/3-10-2013Bacon098.jpg)
small to medium chunks work fine too.......I pre-heat them so they don't just smoulder thick smoke....
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/1buckie/1st%202013%20chicken/1-8-2013%20Ribs/1-8-2013Ribs012.jpg)
You can easily do long smokes on a kettle also....like so:
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/bbq-food-pics/bob's-beef-o-rama/msg20382/#msg20382
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/re-print-ok-what's-in-kettle-3/msg35831/#msg35831
The Smokenator is a good enclosure for indirect, to contain the coals in about 1/4 of he under grate area.....you can load it up pretty good & go for quite a long time..........they work pretty good.......
Some folks do about the same using firebrick as a blocking also......
not worth buying in my opinion
i made one used it a few times
it nothing special imo
save your coin for a roti for your chooks
I use firebricks as the smokenator caused one of my Kettles to warp. All those coals piled up against the side for too many cooks just wrecked the Kettle. About 25-30 cooks did it for me. I find using firebricks gives me a better cook anyways so I really do not miss that contraption. If you wanted me to mail you mine I would but the postage would be a waste of money.
I've tried using it a couple of times and honestly I don't find it worth the money. If I'm going to do any smoking in my Kettle, the snake method just works 10x better for me.
I enjoying using mine, very fool proof. However, I didn't purchase mine at full retail. I purchased a used OTS (like 3 cooks on it) for $75 and it came with a ton of accessories: grill grates, chimney, various wood chips, smokenator, hinged grate, thermo added to lid, several firewires, etc.
Now I also haven't tried the snake method in my kettle; therefore I may be the one missing out. My assumption is, based on previous comments, the snake works well and negates the need for a smokenator.
The one thing I dislike about the smokenator is the sorry water pan, it's too small. I've heard there are solutions for that though.
I never regretted buying mine and still use it a few times during the year. Meathead loves it coupled with a PID and has good tips on using it. http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/smokenator_tips.html
If you bank your coals off the sides of your kettle all the time like a Smokenator would do wouldn't that over time kinda spider the outside finish on your kettle from all the heat being directly on the kettle wall? I like to use the Weber charcoal holders as this keeps my charcoal off the sides of the kettle.
Quote from: BluesDaddy on January 23, 2015, 09:10:38 AM
I never regretted buying mine and still use it a few times during the year. Meathead loves it coupled with a PID and has good tips on using it. http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/smokenator_tips.html
meathead loves it because he makes money every time someone buys one from his page ;)
oops
I use mine a lot and haven't any issues with the side of my Performer, it very rarely gets hotter than 275 and will normally
run 225 ~ 245 so I don't know if that kind of heat will damage the bowl, I mean I usually grill in the 350 ~ 425 temp
range in the same cooker and no issues with the finish yet.
jdefran,
I don't use the stock water pan, instead I use a disposable 1 pound aluminum loaf pan and put it over one
of the smaller round holes and the temp will lock in at 225 ~ 245 for about 5 hours at a time and the water is good
for that amount of time too. just use hot tap water and you are good to go..
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b637/dredgerguy/Pork%20butt/PS9_zpsa4c3e9a9.jpg)
I'm thinking of trying this:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/163246/smokenator-diy (http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/163246/smokenator-diy)
http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/10730246?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222228009324071&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=47976630272&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=95956242992&veh=sem (http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/10730246?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222228009324071&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=47976630272&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=95956242992&veh=sem)
At $7 it's worth a shot
Quote from: mirkwood on January 23, 2015, 02:18:37 PM
I use mine a lot and haven't any issues with the side of my Performer, it very rarely gets hotter than 275 and will normally
run 225 ~ 245 so I don't know if that kind of heat will damage the bowl, I mean I usually grill in the 350 ~ 425 temp
range in the same cooker and no issues with the finish yet.
jdefran,
I don't use the stock water pan, instead I use a disposable 1 pound aluminum loaf pan and put it over one
of the smaller round holes and the temp will lock in at 225 ~ 245 for about 5 hours at a time and the water is good
for that amount of time too. just use hot tap water and you are good to go..
(http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b637/dredgerguy/Pork%20butt/PS9_zpsa4c3e9a9.jpg)
There he is .....I seen Lance run this rig at a meetup & in the hands of somebody who knows, it sings !!!
3 racks of killer ribs all done smooth on the same kettle.....I've seen people use them before, but not that well !!!!
Hi ya Mr Buckie, hope y'all had a kick butt holiday season and thanks for the kind words.
I'm still trying to figure out if having 18 WSM is worth it or not as I still get better results
with the Somkenator. But to be fair I haven't cooked nearly as much on the WSM as
the Performer so the struggle goes on..
Been looking at these, even before I joined this site. Think I'll play with the snake method first. Not off the wish list, yet.
Quote from: mirkwood on January 23, 2015, 08:33:33 PM
Hi ya Mr Buckie, hope y'all had a kick butt holiday season and thanks for the kind words.
I'm still trying to figure out if having 18 WSM is worth it or not as I still get better results
with the Somkenator. But to be fair I haven't cooked nearly as much on the WSM as
the Performer so the struggle goes on..
I would recommend skipping the 18.5" wsm in favor of a CB extension. Once you master smoking on a kettle (I've had your ribs and you would fall into this category) the 18.5" WSM is frustrating to cook ribs on since they don't fit laid out.
Quote from: TheDude on June 03, 2015, 09:39:00 PM
Been looking at these, even before I joined this site. Think I'll play with the snake method first. Not off the wish list, yet.
I don't think the smokenator is neccessary to churn out good smoked 'q from the kettle BUT if you think you'd enjoy using one then go for it!
@TheDude I've had a SNtr for at least three thanksgivings. I've used it to L&S smoke the family turkey. The device acts like a heat shield (as do bricks, etc.) but leaves more room in the "oven" so to speak. The water bath really only helps stabilize the Low side temps, not that much moisturizing seems to take place. I too use a larger water pan. For long cooks, you will need to add coals, but what's new. Made three GREAT turkey dinners over the past three Thanksgivings.
I like it for ribs as well, but usually just cook ribs w/o a water pan using the "fuse" method. Hummmmm, I do seem to get a deeper smoke-ring when I smokenate ???
@CharliefromLI , I like that simple DIY idea & may try it myself...
+ if you use this "Non-stick" pan be sure to scrape it off & BURN the coating away before you put your food near it.
Non-stick burns toxic @ high heat
Id soend a few extra and pull the 14.5" wsm..she doesnt take up a lot of space either...and she is really portable...can carry her with one hand...
Quote from: TeddyC on January 21, 2015, 06:51:37 PM
... The Mastertouch comes with the charcoal Fuel holder. If I want to do a light smoke, I can throw some wood chips on top, and have the fuel holders set up in indirect. Bingo, I'm smoking...
So, what's the point of the smokenator? Does the smokenator do anything different from what I just described? ...
Because you're experienced with the WSM you know that low heat and where the heat is plays a huge roll in "smoking" something. What the Smokenator does is emulate some aspects of your vertical smoker, with water pan and a place to put some smoke wood. Most of us probably agree that the kettle's basic design already allows for a setup at least as good if not better. Problem is, you can't market it ... and so, Internet.
And since smoking is often associated with low-and-slow, what often works best in the kettle is charcoal arranged around the edges in a "snake" or "fuse" formation. This does a few things: only a few coals are lit at a time, which keeps heat under control, and the heat moves around with the snake so that you don't have to rotate the grill grate during the long cook, and the center stays bare; the WSM 18's water pan and charcoal ring can be used there if you want or just a drip pan.
Try smoking without water...i went no water this past year and it works great...meat does not dry out.
Also recently tried smoking without the water pan at all and that came out great too....
Imo its all about temp control...water / water pan are not really required
Quote from: pbe gummi bear on June 03, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: mirkwood on January 23, 2015, 08:33:33 PM
Hi ya Mr Buckie, hope y'all had a kick butt holiday season and thanks for the kind words.
I'm still trying to figure out if having 18 WSM is worth it or not as I still get better results
with the Somkenator. But to be fair I haven't cooked nearly as much on the WSM as
the Performer so the struggle goes on..
I would recommend skipping the 18.5" wsm in favor of a CB extension. Once you master smoking on a kettle (I've had your ribs and you would fall into this category) the 18.5" WSM is frustrating to cook ribs on since they don't fit laid out.
Thank you for the kind words Gummie, I still haven't got a handle on the 18.5 WSM but have been getting busy doing ribs on my 22.5's using both the Smokenator and snake methods at the
same time and it's kind of a toss up to me, both methods work very well and the finished product from both were pretty well received..
What don't you like about your ribs from the WSM? Are you using enough wood in it? I remember your ribs had a lot of smoke flavor from the wood. To get the same effect you'd probably need to increase the amount of wood in the wsm firebowl since it's so large.
Mostly a temp issue for me G, just can't seem to get it down to where I want it (225~245) it acts like it is settling into the range I want and then it spikes to well over 300 and then it's
all over the place.. Every piece fits as it should, I replaced the door with a CB door and and still.. It looked like the previous owner had an ATC unit of some kind on it.
I have noticed that it doesn't seem to burn the charcoal evenly or consistently when using the Minion method, might be why there was a blower hooked up to it..
My big WSM runs hot, around 275-300 unless I bring the top vent to 1/4 open and bottom vents even less than that . Have you tried temp control by getting more aggressive with the top vent? Once in a while I'll do a minion with the hot coals at the bottom of the pile. The ash starts from the bottom and burns more consistently. Pack that charcoal tight!
I have had all vents closed down to about an 1/8th of an inch and still no joy, with and without water in the bowl, fresh bag of KKB.
I haven't tried the hot coals on the bottom yet and I'll try packing the coals tighter. Am going to cook the pork butt on the C&B
so I know I will get the temps I want.
@mirkwood ...it may be your startup. Only drop about 10 hot briquettes lit in the middle. Top vent fully open. Only use one vent ever slightly open. Warmup for an hr. She should run steady around 200-225..if too low..then adjust slightly on another bottom vent. Slight adjustments in 70 degree weather willbheat her up..once a wsm fires up hot..its hard to pull it back...easier to raise temp than lower
@mirkwood it sounds as if you might have air leaks from the previous owner's ATC modification? Got a picture of that? Some high heat HVAC tape might seal small holes? Also take stock of the dampers, they might not be as flush with the bowl as they could be?
I last did ribs on my 18 WSM and had all intakes closed completely the last couple hours, maintaining about 225-250 (I forget) with top vent open. You might also try putting the WSM in the shade if possible.
Ive been debating getting a smokenator, but i found a methoud that works good for me. It involves using the charcoal rails and the fuel baskets. I used the one fuel basket as a radiator and i bank my coals with the charcoal rail. I actually figured this method out with my jumbo joe first. I was having a nightmare controlling the heat dispersion in it which led me to buy the performer, i have very little issues doing indirect with my performer and the fuel baskets. I tried putting my coals in the basket in the JJ and uh, while i could keep the temp high but not consistent. I for some reason decided to reverse it (i think because only a little bit of coals left) i banked the coals and used the basket as a radiator under my meat. everything cooked evenly and damn good. Ive been using this method my last few smokes of all small stuff. Works for me. but scared to try it with some ribs.... but i will....soon. Ive smoked spatchcocked chickens, 8 giant pork chops . huge packs of wings. all using this method. the basket as a radiator has actually been great. im debating tying it with both baskets. One to hold the fuel the other to radiate heat. Im a newbie though :) you guys probably know and tried all this stuff.
@agensop haven't tried it quite like that.....sounds like a novel way to go about it !!!
If i understand it correctly, is there coals right beneath the cooking items?
It doesn't get too hot that way?
from the report of how it's coming out, seems not !!!!
If you're able to stick up pictures, that always helps, if not, a good description like you did works too !!!!
no the coals are to the side the empty basket is partially under the meat the half moon shape actually helps it radiate pretty well
Quote from: agensop on June 06, 2015, 12:32:28 PM
no the coals are to the side the empty basket is partially under the meat the half moon shape actually helps it radiate pretty well
Thats a great idea. Some members have used the baskets as "negative" charcoal space holders. For example, some have put the two baskets in the middle with a charcoal ring or snake on the perimeter.
I dont know how to upload images or id show a pic of how i set it up
Here's one rundown.....
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/kettle-club-discussions/how-to-post-pictures-here-at-the-wkc/
And there's direct way to do this now also......
http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/
I've not used this method yet & not quite sure of how to transfer the pics into a post, but it may very wel;l be more streamlined than Photobucket, etc.
If you need help, just ask !!!!
I had one. It works ok, but as others have stated the water pan is a PITA. A couple of fire bricks will do just as good. Personally I use the snake method now.
I just bank them under the angle of the Vortex so it's angle deflects the heat away and around.
Quote from: toolhead on June 06, 2015, 02:52:51 AM
@mirkwood ...it may be your startup. Only drop about 10 hot briquettes lit in the middle. Top vent fully open. Only use one vent ever slightly open. Warmup for an hr. She should run steady around 200-225..if too low..then adjust slightly on another bottom vent. Slight adjustments in 70 degree weather willbheat her up..once a wsm fires up hot..its hard to pull it back...easier to raise temp than lower
Toolhead, I think the last time I cooked on it I may have used 12~15 lit, all vents were open full
until the temp was around 190 on my Maverick ET-733 then I closed them all down to about an
1/8 of an inch. It then took another 30 minutes to get to 225 and I was thinking great it's going
to settle in and play nice, which it did for about 20 minutes and then it did it's spike thing and
was essentially, outta control till the temp tanked at the 4 hour mark. I closed all the vents
down when it spiked and it still behaved like a Doberman on LSD till the fire flat lined..
Quote from: addicted-to-smoke on June 06, 2015, 08:26:34 AM
@mirkwood it sounds as if you might have air leaks from the previous owner's ATC modification? Got a picture of that? Some high heat HVAC tape might seal small holes? Also take stock of the dampers, they might not be as flush with the bowl as they could be?
I last did ribs on my 18 WSM and had all intakes closed completely the last couple hours, maintaining about 225-250 (I forget) with top vent open. You might also try putting the WSM in the shade if possible.
ATS, I'll look it over really closely this week but if memory serves me, two of the bottom vents
were taped over even though they seem tight and the vent that the ATC was on had a small
amount of tape on it too like it might have been a BBQ Guru unit that uses a single hole of the
vent to do it's magic. There are two holes to the right of the door that used to be screws and
nuts that hold the rack hanger, but are hallow fasteners like for probes to go through, but are
smaller in diameter than the 733 probes..
@mirkwood Saw your WSM posts to ATS. I just finished my first cook on the WSM. I tried to setup & use an Auber, but the probe went nutzo on me so I had to resort to damper adjustments. I started with a full level load of KBB (wanted to see how long it would cook), pulled 20 out of the middle & placed them around the edges of the basket, lit (hot) 20 new and dumped them into the crater. My cook log shows that my WSM leaks like a sieve, but I still managed to hold a 240 degree temp. Top vent at 50%, bottom vent ranging from 0% to 50% as I chased the goal temp. Other bottom vents closed the entire cook (incl ramp up). If, for any reason, you'd like to see my log PM me and I'll eMAIL it your way. SJ
Quote from: mirkwood on June 09, 2015, 01:37:49 AM
Quote from: toolhead on June 06, 2015, 02:52:51 AM
@mirkwood ...it may be your startup. Only drop about 10 hot briquettes lit in the middle. Top vent fully open. Only use one vent ever slightly open. Warmup for an hr. She should run steady around 200-225..if too low..then adjust slightly on another bottom vent. Slight adjustments in 70 degree weather willbheat her up..once a wsm fires up hot..its hard to pull it back...easier to raise temp than lower
Toolhead, I think the last time I cooked on it I may have used 12~15 lit, all vents were open full
until the temp was around 190 on my Maverick ET-733 then I closed them all down to about an
1/8 of an inch. It then took another 30 minutes to get to 225 and I was thinking great it's going
to settle in and play nice, which it did for about 20 minutes and then it did it's spike thing and
was essentially, outta control till the temp tanked at the 4 hour mark. I closed all the vents
down when it spiked and it still behaved like a Doberman on LSD till the fire flat lined..
I think the issue is having all vents open...that method was having the wsm on a path to high temos.
Vent control has delays on actual temp control..so having all vents open till 180 -200 will have the wsm on path tobhugh temps even with shutting down all vents at desired temp...
I start slow and very modest with opening vents....i think most others stsrt their wsm the same way.
Quote from: toolhead on June 10, 2015, 09:40:55 AM
Quote from: mirkwood on June 09, 2015, 01:37:49 AM
Toolhead, I think the last time I cooked on it I may have used 12~15 lit, all vents were open full
until the temp was around 190 on my Maverick ET-733 then I closed them all down to about an
1/8 of an inch.
I think the issue is having all vents open...that method was having the wsm on a path to high temos.
Vent control has delays on actual temp control..so having all vents open till 180 -200 will have the wsm on path tobhugh temps even with shutting down all vents at desired temp...
I start slow and very modest with opening vents....i think most others stsrt their wsm the same way.
As I was typing that I was thinking I might have been waiting too long to throttle it down to start with.. Now I just need to coalesce all the pointers n tips everyone's shared with me
and apply them to my next cook on the WSM, I'll just reboot and approach it as if it were my first cook on it.. Thanks to everyone for all the info..
I've used the smokenator for 2 years...I think it's great for low and slow BBQ. I follow the simple instructions, add my own water pan and can easily keep my 22.5" at a desired 265f forever as long as I add 8-10 briquettes and warm water every 1-1/4 hours.
(FYI, I use 265f for ribs, based on Arron Franklin's advice to use 275f for low and slow ribs and brisket)