Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: LaTuFu on April 06, 2016, 08:42:12 AM
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Let's get the debate started on the day of release: Is the Charcoal Summit a game changing new product in the grilling world, like the iPhone was for consumer electronics, or will it be yet another huge product flop like the Ford Edsel or New Coke?
For the game changer argument:
* Unique features that look to address some of the shortcomings inherent in the ceramic kamado design (RapidFire Vent, open air insulation)
* Extremely versatile cooker with the adjustable grates, expansion shelf, etc.
* Insulated bowl that addresses the main weak point of a standard kettle, temperature fluctuation.
For the product flop argument:
The main thing that has me worried is Weber's brand image. I liken it to Volkswagen (pre-dieselgate). In the mid-2000s VW introduced a "luxury" sedan to compete with BMW, Mercedes, and their own Audi. Management thought process at the time was that people who liked the VW brand would buy a $90k sedan, because it was a VW. They grossly overestimated this. Yes, there are very loyal VW owners around the world and in the US. But those people buy VW because you can get a german engineered sedan for $25-$35k, which is what they can afford. Anyone who can afford to spend $90k on a sedan will buy a Mercedes or BMW, if for no other reason than status. That's exactly what happened, too.
I'm wondering if a similar thing will happen to Weber with the Charcoal Summit. I have no doubt that it is a solid product, and already @chefn58 indicates its performance matches the hype. But most of us who like the Weber brand like it, among other things, because we have a solid, reliable cooker that is extremely versatile and doesn't cost a tremendous amount of money. We get 80-90-95% of the capabilities of a high end ceramic or offset for 10-30% of the price. Most of the people who buy the BGEs and Langs buy them because of the exclusive aspect. Anyone that knows a small amount about grills knows some coin was dropped when a guy takes the cover off his BGE mounted in a table. Will casual grillers realize this when someone pulls back the curtain on their Charcoal Summit? More importantly, will enough people in the BGE/KJ market be willing to consider the Weber brand instead? That's the real test to the success of this product, imo.
I think it would be more successful if it was priced closer to $1k instead of $2k. This would make it more appealing to a wider audience, and it would get more Weber fans on board. Once you have a wave of these guys raving about them online, the marketing will take care of itself. One reason it has stood the test of time is the legion of loyal fans, after all.
Instead, Weber has pinned its hopes for success on this product to convincing a prospective BGE/KJ owner to consider their product instead. Those folks tend to buy prestige and status. They don't necessarily buy performance first. And prestige buyers rarely want to buy something associated with "the masses."
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I would argue that the Weber Kamado will meet or exceed the performance of Big Green Egg and other ceramics. Ceramics look cool but their experience leaves a lot to be desired. It seems like this Kamado fixes many of those gripes. I for one am very excited by the Weber Charcoal Summit.
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Yep. As am I.
But you and I, and pretty much everyone else here, is schooled enough in grills to know the difference. Others? Not exactly. On one end, you'll have people like this guy: "Get the same thing with more features with an Acorn + Flameboss 200 for $1000 less." Clueless, doesn't even know it, and won't bother to find out why.
On the other end, people with the ability to write the check who only know Weber as the kettle their Dad/Grandad used to have. Will they take the time to discover what we already know, or will they buy the BGE because it is already the status symbol in that end of the market?
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The market segmentation is taken care of as this grill isn't going to be sold in big box stores. It's only going to specialty and independent dealers where the grills on the floor will be in the same class. People with those Weber Kettle memories already AND are in the market for a $1500 charcoal grill could very well be attracted to the SCG as the flagship kettle/Kamado for the new generation.
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It isn't called Summit by accident. People who shop for Summit gas grills can and will shop for this.
People who shop for new Genesis/Spirit gas grills will shop for Performers and WSMs.
I will stick to my Craigslist kettles, WSM, and 30 year old Genesis 2.
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I do like the Summit Charcoal Grill and I think it will do well against the Kamado market. One of the biggest things I thought would be an annoyance with a kamado cooker was the ash cleanup. That (and price) is why I decided on going with an Akorn for that style of cooker. I think the Weber ash catcher is a great addition to the product type. The hinged deflector may make it a bit easier to add more fuel if needed, but you still have to contend with moving the grill loaded with food out of the way first.
I would say more iPhone and less Edsel. It has some good new features (like the flip up vent wheel on top), but I wouldn't go quite as far as calling it a game changer.
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iPhone.
I also predict in the next five years we will see a copper and green finish option after testing the waters with classic Weber Jet Black. Think classy outdoor kitchens and the buyer wants his/her Summit Charcoal Grill to have "earth tones". And yes I still say/predict this even if Weber never offers the 26 kettle in anything other than black..
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I would argue that the Weber Kamado will meet or exceed the performance of Big Green Egg and other ceramics. Ceramics look cool but their experience leaves a lot to be desired. It seems like this Kamado fixes many of those gripes. I for one am very excited by the Weber Charcoal Summit.
Have any of you ever been to an Eggfest? Because just when I thought that I had seen everything that the egg could do, someone always blows my mind with something new.
Weber needs to pull their heads out of their asses and start courting the consumers instead of the bloggers
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Was the ranch kettle a success? I think it and the Summit charcoal are way over priced.
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I would argue that the Weber Kamado will meet or exceed the performance of Big Green Egg and other ceramics. Ceramics look cool but their experience leaves a lot to be desired. It seems like this Kamado fixes many of those gripes. I for one am very excited by the Weber Charcoal Summit.
Have any of you ever been to an Eggfest? Because just when I thought that I had seen everything that the egg could do, someone always blows my mind with something new.
Weber needs to pull their heads out of their asses and start courting the consumers instead of the bloggers
I have not hat the pleasure of going to Eggfest or Eggs by the Bay but I stand by my statement that the Kamado has inherent flaws on usability. If the person using it doesn't mind, then great for them. BBQ folks are crafty people and its really cool to see creative solutions on a Kamado, kettle, or otherwise.
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My dealer will have his Friday so I'm going to look at it and next Thursday I.will be doing some demo.grilling with it so I can see if I'm getting one or not.
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At this point, waaaaay early in the game, I am still leaning towards iPhone more than Edsel.
But I have concerns with the initial market reactions--all of which I fully admit is anecdotal at best, and skewed because of the segments I was viewing. Scanning Facebook's Weber page, Weber Kettle Fans (Public Group), BBQ Brethren, Instagram, and a few other BBQ forums and social media platforms, the response was nearly universal--way overpriced, nothing new, not on the same level as the Ceramics. Even the people who saw it as an "Egg Beater" (trademark pending!) and saw potential in the product did not agree with pricing.
I expected to see at least a small wave of support among the BBQ crowd, since they have exposure to the BGE/KJs and understand their value. They almost universally didn't see the value in the SCG.
Granted, it's D-Day +1, there is a long way to go. I'm remaining firmly planted in perspective. This will be a fascinating product roll out to watch.
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The Weber Egg Beater moniker is hilarious.
(http://pics.weberkettleclub.com/images/2016/04/07/image.jpg)
I just had to.
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Edsel . . . No.
iPhone . . . not a valid comparison. There are really only 2 choices (iPhone/Droid) in the market and you only other choice is to do without. There are at least 4 or 5 (now) high priced Kamado Cookers on the market not to mention hundreds of other options - both cheaper and more expensive.
Shelby Mustang . . . more likely comparison. And who will be shelling out $50-60K for something run out and pick up some hamburger meat? The same one who shell out $2K for a grill to cook the burgers.
BD
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@Big Dawg what I meant by the comparison to the iphone is that it is generally considered a very game changing product when it was initially released. At that time, there were several players vying for market share in the emerging smartphone market. Nokia, Microsoft, RIM (Blackberry), Google, and Palm all had Operating Systems they were jockeying for position in the market. Apple came along and cleared out many of them. Google has remained the only consistent and credible competitor to iOS.
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@LaTuFu, oh you brought back fond memories of my old Blackberry ! ! !
I get it, I was just coming at it from another angle. Also, I certainly don't think that the WSC is going to "clear the field" of any specific players (BGE, K-Joe, Primo, Vision, Keg, etc.), let along have any impact on the "operating systems" out there (pellet, gas, electric, plane old charcoal).
I also don't think it's going to be an actual flop, like the Edsel.
But I do feel that's it oriented towards (what I like to call) the "more money than cents" [sic] crowd.
Obviously you're not really going to be able to do anything on it that you can't already do on a Kettle or WSM - except in the terms of fuel economy. So, my comparison was based on that fact that you can't really do anything in Shelby that you couldn't do in any other Mustang. You just get to do it bit quicker!
BD
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@LaTuFu, oh you brought back fond memories of my old Blackberry ! ! !
I get it, I was just coming at it from another angle. Also, I certainly don't think that the WSC is going to "clear the field" of any specific players (BGE, K-Joe, Primo, Vision, Keg, etc.), let along have any impact on the "operating systems" out there (pellet, gas, electric, plane old charcoal).
I also don't think it's going to be an actual flop, like the Edsel.
But I do feel that's it oriented towards (what I like to call) the "more money than cents" [sic] crowd.
Obviously you're not really going to be able to do anything on it that you can't already do on a Kettle or WSM - except in the terms of fuel economy. So, my comparison was based on that fact that you can't really do anything in Shelby that you couldn't do in any other Mustang. You just get to do it bit quicker!
BD
To this day, the Palm Treo is my favorite phone I've ever used. That of course in context to when I owned it. The current iPhone is better by many, but not all, measures.
I don't think it's fair to say that people who purchase the SCG or other premium products have more money than sense- their value equation is just different than your own. To me it doesn't matter what people spend their money on, but it does matter when they are a jerk about it!
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@LaTuFu, oh you brought back fond memories of my old Blackberry ! ! !
I get it, I was just coming at it from another angle. Also, I certainly don't think that the WSC is going to "clear the field" of any specific players (BGE, K-Joe, Primo, Vision, Keg, etc.), let along have any impact on the "operating systems" out there (pellet, gas, electric, plane old charcoal).
I also don't think it's going to be an actual flop, like the Edsel.
But I do feel that's it oriented towards (what I like to call) the "more money than cents" [sic] crowd.
Obviously you're not really going to be able to do anything on it that you can't already do on a Kettle or WSM - except in the terms of fuel economy. So, my comparison was based on that fact that you can't really do anything in Shelby that you couldn't do in any other Mustang. You just get to do it bit quicker!
BD
I don't think it's fair to say that people who purchase the SCG or other premium products have more money than sense- their value equation is just different than your own. To me it doesn't matter what people spend their money on, but it does matter when they are a jerk about it!
THIS.
Everyone has a different perception of ideal lifestyle, and everyone's willingness to sacrifice money or time varies.
If everyone had the same money/value opinions, we'd live in a very dull and boring world.
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I'm so glad to see that some get it. Like the Dodge Hellcat, or the Shelby, this grill is not mean't to be for everone. It is simply meant to appeal to a certain demographic, as is the original kettle, the master touch, the performer... It is up to each one of us to decide if it is worth it to us. Whether you decide you don't need it, or don't want it, that is no reason to denigrate the product.
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I'm so glad to see that some get it. Like the Dodge Hellcat, or the Shelby, this grill is not mean't to be for everone. It is simply meant to appeal to a certain demographic, as is the original kettle, the master touch, the performer... It is up to each one of us to decide if it is worth it to us. Whether you decide you don't need it, or don't want it, that is no reason to denigrate the product.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are probably many people that would balk at the $400 price of a new Performer when you can go to Walmart and buy a square charcoal grill for under $30.
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I'm so glad to see that some get it. Like the Dodge Hellcat, or the Shelby, this grill is not mean't to be for everone. It is simply meant to appeal to a certain demographic, as is the original kettle, the master touch, the performer... It is up to each one of us to decide if it is worth it to us. Whether you decide you don't need it, or don't want it, that is no reason to denigrate the product.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are probably many people that would balk at the $400 price of a new Performer when you can go to Walmart and buy a square charcoal grill for under $30.
I would modify your statement to say "when you can go to Walmart and buy a silver kettle for 100 bucks or less."
So having said that... Why should I spend money on the "Performer" when I can cook just as well on the basic 22" kettle. Or even the 18"
In the end, I'm buying what I'm buying because it can do what I need, it can do what I want, because I can afford it, because I want it, because I like it...
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I'm not aware that any other charcoal grill has the features these two do, which makes placing a value judgement on the prices somewhat of an interesting exercise.
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Just for the record, my intent was not denigrate or demean anyone or any product. If it came across that way, I do apologize.
As far as cars go, there's certainly nothing wrong with a new (or original) Shelby Cobra. And nothing wrong with wanting one or owning one.
Same thing goes for the SCG.
The purpose of my comment was to make a comparison in relation to the thread title, which I interpreted to mean Flop (Edsel) or Game Changer (iPhone).
I just don't think the WSC is either. Does it have some interesting features,? Sure does. Will it cook some great food? No doubt. Is it overpriced? Well I don't know, but FireCraft has taken down the price and asks you to call for a quote, so maybe it is.
While I don't really care what anyone spends their money on, do I question spending that much for either a car or a grill? Only as much as some of you might question what I spend each month on cigars.
And that's all I was saying.
BD
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Not an iPhone or Edsel, more like a Cadillac ATS. Almost everyone has an iPhone and an Edsel was a bomb that faded away. The Summit is just high end in cost. Those with the money will like to have it because they can.
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Just for the record, my intent was not denigrate or demean anyone or any product. If it came across that way, I do apologize.
As far as cars go, there's certainly nothing wrong with a new (or original) Shelby Cobra. And nothing wrong with wanting one or owning one.
Same thing goes for the SCG.
The purpose of my comment was to make a comparison in relation to the thread title, which I interpreted to mean Flop (Edsel) or Game Changer (iPhone).
I just don't think the WSC is either. Does it have some interesting features,? Sure does. Will it cook some great food? No doubt. Is it overpriced? Well I don't know, but FireCraft has taken down the price and asks you to call for a quote, so maybe it is.
While I don't really care what anyone spends their money on, do I question spending that much for either a car or a grill? Only as much as some of you might question what I spend each month on cigars.
And that's all I was saying.
BD
I could have sworn i saw the price of the base SCG as $1400 on firecraft, then up to $1500, and now "contact us". Below MAP perhaps?
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No doubt. Is it overpriced? Well I don't know, but FireCraft has taken down the price and asks you to call for a quote, so maybe it is.
Probably has something to do with all the people bitching and whining about how many performers and WSM they could buy with the money.
To them, a Weber is a Weber is a Weber apparently. I find it odd that these vocal social trolls can't just ignore it. Instead, they go out of their way to make a scene.
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Welcome to the internet! This is how these people feel important.
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No doubt. Is it overpriced? Well I don't know, but FireCraft has taken down the price and asks you to call for a quote, so maybe it is.
Probably has something to do with all the people bitching and whining about how many performers and WSM they could buy with the money.
To them, a Weber is a Weber is a Weber apparently. I find it odd that these vocal social trolls can't just ignore it. Instead, they go out of their way to make a scene.
@Troy: If you're going to use a quote to label me a troll (a first for me, by the way) at least have the integrity to not take my quote out of context. I was saying that it "No Doubt" would cook good food.
Also, I never said that I could, or would, buy this, or buy that with the money Weber wanted for their new grill.
"No Doubt" I will be buying some Oliva "V"s, some La Flor Dominecanas, and maybe some Hemingways or even some Aņejos . . .
BD
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@Big Dawg. Let me reply since I replied to @Troy.
I don't believe that you were being called a troll. I think that the comment was directed at people on social media who were "bitching" about being able to buy X amount of kettles for the price of one Summit charcoal.
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I have seen this grill/smoker and really like it. That said do I wish it was less money... yes. That said do I see one in my future??? Yes! Will I sell any of my beloved Kettles? Don't think so!
Will I have one?
Yes! Not soon but I will have one!
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@Big Dawg. Let me reply since I replied to @Troy.
I don't believe that you were being called a troll. I think that the comment was directed at people on social media who were "bitching" about being able to buy X amount of kettles for the price of one Summit charcoal.
Yes, this exactly.
Sorry @Big Dawg - no part of my message was intended to be directed at you.
I was specifically ranting about the repeated facebook rants happening in some groups. The same guys, posting the same 'weber is out of their mind' stuff to eachother. Over, and over, and over.
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Agreed, @Troy. They are a very tiring group. Particularly those that are just following the crowd and parroting what they thought they heard. More than once I've seen "you could buy 2 green eggs and have money left over!" not realizing that the SCG is sized and priced similar to the XL BGE with accessories.
A lot of that same crowd disses accessories like the Vortex and Slow n Sear because of cost, too. They're just cheap and bitter.
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i am interested, but i think it is priced a bit too high.
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Agreed, @Troy. They are a very tiring group. Particularly those that are just following the crowd and parroting what they thought they heard. More than once I've seen "you could buy 2 green eggs and have money left over!" not realizing that the SCG is sized and priced similar to the XL BGE with accessories.
A lot of that same crowd disses accessories like the Vortex and Slow n Sear because of cost, too. They're just cheap and bitter.
don't forget the two-times-per-week "fat cap up, or fat cap down?" questions.
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I want to lead with IM NOT A HATER. I love the Weber brand.
I was disappointed by the price. That being said, It will be neither iPhone nor Edsel. It will be a niche product that may sell well in it's slot in the arena. There may be some buyers who won't buy it because the Weber brand is ubiquitous, and lacks high-end brand cachet. Some of the people who best appreciate the Weber brand for its stalwart quality and durability (like me) are priced out.
If it were priced at 1k or below it would still be a grail-grill for me but I'd strongly consider it. Lastly, I think they missed their target audience. I think it is people like us who take their outdoor cooking very seriously and with a great deal of passion. We talk about our cooks and our gear publicly and on SM and in groups like this on the net. I'll bet on luke-warm sales at their chosen price point and in the corresponding "exclusive" sales channels. Price it at 1k put it in HD/Lowes, I'd bet they would move more units.
(Flame suit on) : )
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Thank you @Troy and @Darko. I am sorry for my side of the misunderstanding.
Even though I have a Facebook page, it's apparently a "Grey" page so I can't really do much but post to my own page.
I also limit myself to only 3 cooking forums, so I guess I haven't really been seeing the rants that you have. This, obviously, is one of those 3 and I really like it here. I am not a real collector like most of you guys, but, this place does have a lot great information someone who is simply a Weber guy.
Again, sorry for my part.
BD
(PS: If any of you know what Grey Page is and how to make it a "real" page, a PM would be appreciated. Some guy sent me an email saying he'd fix my page for $50. Just not worth it right now.)
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I'd like to think Weber actually did a good job marketing this. Sure it was not a grill that they were really thinking many of us in this group or the weber kettle social media outlets would buy, but they knew we would talk about it, and talk about it a lot. I've talked it up to a lot of high end egg owners who I have no doubt are very interested in the new highest end grill that weber just released. I too wish it was priced lower, but we don't know at this point how much money went into research and development, test, shipping models out to dealers, etc.. I'd like to think the price will drop shortly after the first year...once those of us who might be on the fence as far as if we actually want it are totally sold, but still inhibited by the price tage. At first I definitely though it was over priced, but everyday I am seeing something new that it can do. Initially the amazing ribs review really impressed me then it was Shoestringshop posting a pic with his hand on the lid while it was running 600 degrees. Now we've all seen that it has a ATC hole already in it. Then I heard that you can run it super hot with the difuser to make pizzas without additional attachments. This grill at least in my eyes gets cooler and cooler by the day, and if you can allow yourself to not get sucked into the social media rants about the price, or how many performers or BGE's you could buy, you can see that this grill is freaking awesome if you are in the market this grill is geared to. I love that I can do pretty much everythiing in my kettles that my friends with offset smokers, eggs, etc can do and it makes me smile even more when they see me do it and taste my final product. That is why we are all here. We are in a minority of grillers and smokers and love doing what we do with what a lot of people would turn their noses at. If given the money to buy a brand new perfomer, a lot, if not most of use would go out a buy a few used grils and some more accesories before buying 1 brand new performer. There is also a sizable group of keeping up with the Jones' kind of people out there that will see this new Weber product as the new thing they have to have to outdo someone else. I can't hate on that, and good for weber for going after them. Who know's, maybe this grill sells as good or better than Weber is expecting and they will have some more profits to put towards the kind of products we would like to see, like bringing back some colors, or offering some of the product only available outside of North America.
I think I'm rambling on a little bit, so to end, I'd say this grill is like a expensive car. Just because it's out of your price range it doesn't mean you hate it. I think its crazy that people are so pissed off about this Grill. If the manufacturer of the car you drive came out with a kick ass car that was 10 times the cost of the model that you are driving, would you hate that car? I doubt it.
I get that people thought it was going to be something the the price range of your average kettlehead and you feel a little betrayed, but it was never suggested this was going to be a affordable grill. Since day one, everything we have seen included "Grill of a Lifetime". I sure as hell wouldn't expect a car that was marketed as the car of my lifetime to be something I could easily afford....more of a holy grail, set some goals and someday hopefully make it happen.
sorry if there are any typos or grammatical mistakes....I don't have time right now to read through my rant! LOL. Back to work for me.
And one more thing I just thought of. If everyone is trashing this grill, chance are it won't do as well as it would if everyone was saying "If I could only"... This grill fails and who knows what weber has to cut to make up for it. Take something out of the lineup? Raise prices on Performers? I hope this grill does well. I hope to have one some day. I hope it makes Weber a better company in all demographics.
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I don't look at any FB pages related to much of anything. I just don't think FB is a coherent venue for any sort of nuance.
But I saw enough of what you guys are referring to in the "have you heard a rumor?" thread there to be genuinely surprised that some here were surprised on April 4 about the cost. I thought that alone was odd, but then again I read a thread from start-finish before commenting.
So I'm in the store today getting some SS bolts for my 900 gasser restore. They have the 4-burner Summit and it's $1500. The 3-burner Genesis equivalent is about half that. Don't ask me why, but it is what it is. Same side burner with old fashioned piezo start. Surely there's more to it than 1 extra burner, but it wasn't evident. At some point, if ya wanna play ya gotta pay.
I'll be watching what happens with these kettles. If I hear consistent reports of low fuel usage, better cooks, easier cooks, less time futzing with the machine during a cook and so on ... then one of these will be on my short list within a year.
It's not about prestige or whatever, NO grill looks "that cool." I've come a long way in 2 years with my cooks but still struggle with some basics and with wondering which machine to use and so on. At some point that's gonna grow old. #GrillofaLifetime
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When I win the Lotto Max on Friday, the WSC will be on my list of things to pick up immediately. :-)
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@Big Dawg what I meant by the comparison to the iphone is that it is generally considered a very game changing product when it was initially released. At that time, there were several players vying for market share in the emerging smartphone market. Nokia, Microsoft, RIM (Blackberry), Google, and Palm all had Operating Systems they were jockeying for position in the market. Apple came along and cleared out many of them. Google has remained the only consistent and credible competitor to iOS.
I think you are giving Apple WAY more credit then they deserve. I never saw Iphone being a game changer, perhaps in profits and sale records.....but from a consumer perspective, there was already plenty on the market that did the same thing better and cheaper.
I think the Weber Summit Kettle is nice but there is way too many deal breakers for me. Big/bulky (my kettles need to be portable). Expensive (I can get 5 22" Originals for the price of 1 Summit).
Isn't that the whole appeal of the kettle? How dirt cheap it is? It's like cast iron, dirt cheap and better than most other cooking products.
Now I'm not saying Weber won't make a profit, or that I won't get one one of these days....:)
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... from a consumer perspective, there was already plenty on the market that did the same thing better and cheaper. ...
Right, and consumers, curiously shunning all of the other better and cheaper alternatives, bought iPhones anyway. Later, after Google copied many of iPhone's inherent characteristics and behaviors, another huge segment of consumers continued to shun better and cheaper alternatives in order to buy Android smartphones.
And that explains why most everyone today uses an iPhone or Android phone despite a bunch of better and cheaper alternatives out there. The buying public are clearly out of touch.
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@Big Dawg what I meant by the comparison to the iphone is that it is generally considered a very game changing product when it was initially released. At that time, there were several players vying for market share in the emerging smartphone market. Nokia, Microsoft, RIM (Blackberry), Google, and Palm all had Operating Systems they were jockeying for position in the market. Apple came along and cleared out many of them. Google has remained the only consistent and credible competitor to iOS.
I think you are giving Apple WAY more credit then they deserve. I never saw Iphone being a game changer, perhaps in profits and sale records.....but from a consumer perspective, there was already plenty on the market that did the same thing better and cheaper.
I think the Weber Summit Kettle is nice but there is way too many deal breakers for me. Big/bulky (my kettles need to be portable). Expensive (I can get 5 22" Originals for the price of 1 Summit).
Isn't that the whole appeal of the kettle? How dirt cheap it is? It's like cast iron, dirt cheap and better than most other cooking products.
Now I'm not saying Weber won't make a profit, or that I won't get one one of these days....:)
I think you didn't read what I wrote very carefully.
Apple didn't invent the smartphone, although they would like you to think so.
But they did change the market, regardless of how someone feels about the product.
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Tech Non-sequitur:
Free Chrome OS images exist for any old Laptop / Computer(s) needing new life:
http://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3
Google's Android/Chrome OS is free & constantly being developed " better and cheaper " is hard to imagine
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To Troys point, there are a ton of bitter people on social media regarding the price. The minute the grill is even pictured, more than half the comments are "its too damned expensive" . Facebook is really becoming a social cesspool of negativity and name calling and judgey ass people. I'm to the point I'm not on nearly as much. As for the new grill's pricing, look at it this way... If you want one, work for it. Whatever that may entail. Also the silver lining for me is now a brand new Ranch seems more attainable if I wanted one. But I'm holding out for an old style
mothership or a red ranch. [emoji1303]
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I think you didn't read what I wrote very carefully.
Apple didn't invent the smartphone, although they would like you to think so.
But they did change the market, regardless of how someone feels about the product.
Apple is a marketing genius....and people buy into their BS.
More power to Apple is what I say. Meanwhile, I simply refuse to buy or purchase any of their products.
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... from a consumer perspective, there was already plenty on the market that did the same thing better and cheaper. ...
Right, and consumers, curiously shunning all of the other better and cheaper alternatives, bought iPhones anyway. Later, after Google copied many of iPhone's inherent characteristics and behaviors, another huge segment of consumers continued to shun better and cheaper alternatives in order to buy Android smartphones.
And that explains why most everyone today uses an iPhone or Android phone despite a bunch of better and cheaper alternatives out there. The buying public are clearly out of touch.
What herds decide to purchase is irrelevant to me (actually I question the product even more).
:)
I don't own stock so sales #s and profits are irrelevant hehe
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I agree, and I also buy what I like. That's why I don't buy shitty beer that's cheaper and smartphones, bikes, cars, audio gear or computers that are "just as good" as what I consider to be better values.
So when you (as in, you) say something is "better and cheaper," that really only applies to your values. Not in any absolute sense. On that I'm sure we agree.