Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: Harbormaster on February 17, 2013, 05:53:08 AM
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OK folks, I have an internet buddy and fellow Weber enthusiast who has a line on this Weber and we are trying to determine if this is a real deal genuine Sequoia. We know the color is wrong, and there are some other tell-tale signs that may indicate it is not an actual Sequoia.
What say you?
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/harbormasterwyc/Sequoia1_zps445fbd09.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/harbormasterwyc/Sequoia2_zps150a8a1c.jpg)
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Cart looks close, door handle is different. The grill is a standard OTS.
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Ok...I see some differences here. Obviously the kettle itself is not original. The orginal kettle has no legs...or leg sockets for that matter. The wood cart looks a little different. The boards are wider, although the wheels, and hinges are original. Here are some pics of mine.
There are no pics of a side angle either. From the looks of it, the side (or end caps) of the cart appear to be boxed out all the way down. If you look at mine, the sides (or ends) should extend down no farther than the doors.
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Imperial%20Sequoia/019.jpg)
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Imperial%20Sequoia/017.jpg)
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Imperial%20Sequoia/021.jpg)
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Imperial%20Sequoia/029_zps474875aa.jpg)
I have a feeling this seller replaced the top boards as well as the boards on the doors. For what its worth, you may have a partially original Sequoia cart...that is missing the most important part...the original kettle itself.
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The hinges and cart look right, not sure about the handle. It just looks like they trashed the old kettle that was made for it and replaced it with an ots. Also painted the cart while they were at it. If the price is right it can be put back the way it was.
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Im curious, are all 4 wheels the same? Does it have the side rings? I know that you could come real clsoe when building a replica, but some stuff is not avaialble. Like Jeff said, the bowlm and the ring that supports the bowl. Would be worth having for the right price.. 8)
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looks like a container of lighter fluid in one of those pics..... :o
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What they said.
And it looks like the axle leg of the replacement OTS is visable through the open door of the cart.
If they are asking $60, offer $30.
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Thank you gentlemen.
Looking at the two sets of pics I saw other things that led me to believe that if it ever was a GEN-U-INE Sequoia, it had been heavily modified, and I told the potential buyer the same thing.
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Even if that isn't a genuine Sequoia cart it's a damn nice looking replica. ;)
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This is just my opinion, but I believe there isn't one thing original or genuine on this cart. After carefully examining both sets of pics, I conclude that everything is different. To start with, the kettle is obviously not the original - no surprise there. Second, the top and door boards on the this one are tongue and groove style. The top and door boards on Jeff's Sequoya are not. The cross member board going across the inside of the door that is suppose to stabilize the door is contructed differently. This one has a single board that appears to be a 1x8? Jeff's Sequoya has two cross stabilizers per door that appear to be 2x3, maybe 2x4? The doors on this one are made up of 4 panels, one of which is a different width than the others. Jeff's Sequoya doors are made with 5 equal width panels. The wheels on this one have tread patterns, the wheels on Jeff's do not. The door handle obviously isn't the same. The hinges on this one are a three point wing tip cabinet hinge. The hinges on Jeff's Sequoya are not. Finally, the handles on the end are cut slightly shorter from the one Jeff has. What is there left? That covers every component? I think someone was trying to make a replica. Absolutely, positively not original or genuine.
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I concur with Ramsfan, but the hinges on the doors actually are pretty close. My pics aren't the best to show the detail...so I've included a closeup of them. I've also seen 3 different style wheels on Sequoias so far also. The set like my Sequoia has, the set that is on this one, and then a set of wheels with the steel rims and rubber tread. Of course, the wheels on the Sequoia are all 8"...not 6"
So at least one item (the wheels) and MAYBE the hinges might be original on it...in my opinion. The hinge style may have changed over the few years this grill was made.
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Imperial%20Sequoia/041_zps65ec6a71.jpg)
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I think not original. OTS installed. All tongue and groove. One knob on a door..Should have handles on both. Where the ash tray should be, there is a shelf.
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Someone obviously did some work and mods to it, but I try and remember that weber made these for several years and probably made several changes to make them easier to stamp out. You would really need to buy it and pick it apart. Like Jeff said, they used three different wheel styles. The oldest were metal and newest full plastic. It needs to be matched up with another of about the same year.
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Jeff, do you have pictures of the others? This is do different than yours. The one posted by Hank is identical to yours.
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I can't help but thinking that if so many parts and pieces on this cart aren't original that we definately know for sure, it seems highly unlikely that whoever built it would go out of their way to get the original wheels and hinges from 40+ years ago? I would think if they had access to the original wheels and hinges, it would be highly likely that they should have the other original hardware pieces too? Such pieces as the kettle and door handles for instance? I'm guessing that it was probably intended to be a replica all along made with parts readily available today?
It doesn't look like completely bad construction, just definately not original and definately not professional. Look at the scews on the vertical boards on the ends right outside the hinges. Look how sloppy and crooked they are up and down the board. Looks like someone sprayed it with a machine gun. No way Weber would turn out a product looking like that.
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Ramsfan, what's your take on the ring that sets in the top where the bowls sits? Is it possible someone tried to recondition the cart because it was falling apart?
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In my opinion, there is no way this cart was original at one time and then reconditioned. The wood is definately not original. The wood throughout the whole cart is tongue and groove used for flooring. Weber clearly didn't use this, so there is no question that none of the wood is original. Plus, the construction is clearly different. We know the kettle isn't original. So that leaves the remaining pieces such as wheels and hinges and door handles? We know the door handle isn't original for sure. The hinges and wheels are all that's left. Jeff says it's possible they could be original, but if I was a betting man in Vegas, I'd say no. Given everything else isn't original, I doubt those last two pieces would be.
If it was a recondition job, I would think the guy would take apart the whole thing board by board, retrace each piece with an exact copy piece of wood and reassemble it again? That's what I would do if I were reconditioning it.
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IMO, not a single piece of this came from an original Sequoia.
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Jeff, do you have pictures of the others? This is do different than yours. The one posted by Hank is identical to yours.
Greg, I don't have any photos of those other Sequoias.....but I do know for a fact that those are original 8" Weber wheels on there. I have the same ones on my red 26.
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Hey Jeff, I just noticed a bottle of lighter fluid in one of those pictures you posted. :D
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Yeah yeah Shaun...that pic is a few years old. I had the Performer and the Sequoia going at the same time that day. And yes, my gas assist works on the Performer...so..."my wife" was lighting the Sequoia! ;)
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Just yanki'n your chain Jeff. It remindes me of Cookingmamas tag, "ribs parboiling and reaching for the lighter fluid". That always makes me laugh when I see it. I might be trying a chimney for the first time this year.
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That's funny Shaun, you using a Chimney.. I just started using my torch.. Makes quick work of starting the coals.. Plus it makes an awesome sound when its on high! 8)
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I want to try a weed burner just once to see if its any faster.
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Well I would think about a few things. First I would say that Weber did make many different things over a long period of time. We ourselves right here have seen some pretty strange grills that were in fact made by Weber. The gasser performer prototype Rielly got is a real strange bird.
As far as someone reconditioning the existing cart, you can't possibly know what some idiot would do. That is pure conjecture. You see plenty of idiots doing a lot of dumb stuff. Just because we would do it the right way that doesn't mean someone else would do it that way.
I would for sure say it is still a pretty cool cart. It is a decent replica. Who knows maybe it was an aftermarket kit designed for Webers. Maybe someone saw a sequoia and decided they could do one themselves. I like it...if the price was right. I would like to get it and refurb it to look a little more like a sequoia.
It is curious that it has real old wheels on it. Who would find old wheels to put on a cart they just built. It's obviously old, it looks like it has been repainted a long time ago.
I myself have my doubts weather it is a Weber product, however when it comes to Weber I would definitely say never say never....
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I'll stand by my statement that not a piece of that is from an original Sequoia, but that it is rather a reproduction crafted at home.
What makes you (Jeff and Brian) so certain those are old weber wheels? They look like the plastic wheels one buys at Ace hardware or Sears. They have been available for as long as things have had plastic wheels. And notice for example the diamond tread pattern consistent with "replacement lawnmower wheels" vs. the smoother groove pattern apparent in Jeff's photos.
Did weber make left handed and right handed sequoias? :o 8) ??? ::) :-X
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I have an exact set on my red 26. I've also seen the same wheels on a brown 26" Let me go see if I have some pics of my wheels from my 26.
Ok...here are the wheels on my 26. They are 100% for sure a Weber wheel. I think some others might be able to chime in on it as well. There are wheels at Ace, or any big box home supply store that have a similar tread pattern, BUT...the hub is different and the ones in the store don't have the thin white wall either.
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/red%2026/001.jpg)
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Look near the hinge. Looks like a carriage bolt by the hinge. You would think they would all have that. WAY too many differences for me to think it is not a replica. The handles appear shorter also, at least in the photos. I think someone wanted one and built it to their specs, like no spaces between wood on the bottom shelf.
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dangit Jeff, now we need to get the CSI eam to blow up the pictures so we can get a detailed tread analysis done! They certainly could be weber wheels! (Generic wheels just like the ones weber used have definitely been available as well)
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Im sure someone here has an old 26 that could take a shot of their wheel tread. Anyone else have these wheels?
If you look at my Sequoia...one of my back wheels that you can't see has been replaced and is different. I've been trying for the longest time to find an 8" wheel to match mine...have you ever seen a similar one at the Hardware stores G$???
Also...to ad to this. G$...if you have seen the 1973 Weber product catalog at the other site, you can look at the 26ers on their and see they have this same tread pattern.
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Im sure someone here has an old 26 that could take a shot of their wheel tread. Anyone else have these wheels?
If you look at my Sequoia...one of my back wheels that you can't see has been replaced and is different. I've been trying for the longest time to find an 8" wheel to match mine...have you ever seen a similar one at the Hardware stores G$???
I do on my flat top Warrior. I will bear the elements in below zero weather to measure and take pics. It is a Pat# Pending,
but I don't think the are 8". Here it is in a group shot, size in this pic looks comparable to the performers. But, it does have the lawnmower tread, that I'm sure of.
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj623/glrasmussen/WeberAfter_zpsf4352ae5.jpg)
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No Jeff, that cart design is clearly an old design. Today's replacement versions would probably all look something like this:
(http://www.truevalue.com/assets/product_images/styles/large/140129.jpg)
http://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=4706&parentCategoryId=2320&categoryId=1595&subCategoryId=2325&type=product&cid=gooshop&source=google_pla&9gtype=%7Bifsearch:search%7D%7Bifcontent:content%7D&9gkw=%7Bkeyword%7D&9gad=%7Bcreative%7D.1&9gpla=%7Bplacement%7D
I am not sure whether it would have been called a utility wheel or a wagon wheel. I call them lawnmower wheels. But the design was pretty consistent across products.
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Yeah...thats the one Ive seen that I was mentioning with a similar tread pattern...but thats all thats similar. The hub is obviously different though and there is no whitewall. :(
And Greg...yours should be an 8" wheel...just like your Performer and Platinum have.
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Yeah...thats the one Ive seen that I was mentioning with a similar tread pattern...but thats all thats similar. The hub is obviously different though and there is no whitewall. :(
And Greg...yours should be an 8" wheel...just like your Performers have.
Probably, just never put a tape measure to them.
Wouldn't you think the whitewalls would age the same?
In the original picture, one on the left is grungy and the one on the right is bright white.
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You never know where the grill was stored, what might have been splashing up on that wheel either. Totally random stuff Greg.
Ok G$...here is a photo of a brown 26 in the 1973 Weber Product catalog. (Its Greg's grill's brother!) You can clearly see the wheel style with the tread.
Alright...so after all this, we have determined that this Sequoia DOES INDEED have original Weber wheels...the rest of the grill is up for debate! LOL
(http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq142/A_Tame76/Weber26_zpsd5760cd2.jpg)
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I checked the sequoia I have and the wheels have grooves that run all around the tire. I do have an 26" with a diamond tread like that. And and old Ranch but I am 99.9% sure those are not orginal.
I will try to get a picture posted when there is some sunlight outside.
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G$ I am not sure of anything, I'm just trying to be an observer. I think it's a home made myself. Maybe he had some old Weber wheels lying around? Oh and also nevermind looking at lawnmower tires for replacements, try wagon wheels. I have seen a few that would be perfect....
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i've refrained from sharing my opinion because i wanted to see you guys duke it out :)
Here's what I think.
It's a rehab/rebuild.
Here's why:
the wheels look like weber wheels, and the frame, size, and accessories of the cart look original.
the boards and bowl are clearly not original.
my guess is the original kettle and cart got ruined. left open in the rain or something that caused it to rust out and the 'decking' of the cart got destroyed as well. Someone stripped the boards off, leaving just the frame. They rebuilt it from there with different wood (and slightly different arrangement)
a few notes on some other theoretical reasonings:
- it's painted. this means that whoever had it or built it didn't really care about maintaining the original vintage value.
Nowww, if someone were to build that cart from scratch - why bother with details like the wheels and accessories and shape of the handles if they clearly don't care about maintaining the originality of the cart.
For all we know, the original owner could have wanted to upgrade to a one-touch. So he bought a new grill only to realize it wouldn't just 'swap out' so he went to work modifying his sequoia to hold the new grill. His last resort was to tear out all the boards and rebuild with with whatever he had around the garage. When he was done, the grill fit - but the colors didn't match - so he painted it.
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It could be a rehab of an original Sequoia frame, but I saw issues with that too.
The frame in question appears to be "beefier" than the original, the extended handles appear to be too "beefy" as well.
I think my buddy passed anyway.
Thanks for all of the input.