Weber Kettle Club Forums
Grill Talk => Weber Grill Forum (Grills, Accessories) => Topic started by: Pakitori on September 25, 2019, 08:48:51 PM
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Hello Everybody,
New member here, though I've been grilling on kettle grills for most of my life. I'm happy to have found this group!
I'm testing a product concept right now and I would value any feedback you'll take the time to share. The device is an insert for the kettle with robata grill features.
The coals are elevated up high, close to the skewers. There are supports that hols the skewers above the grate. It acts as a charcoal chimney, as well.
I use it with Thaan extruded coals. It works with lump or briquettes too. But the charcoal logs give the best performance and last a ridiculously long time.
Started with the Smokey Joe since that is what we tend to take to the park for grilling.
I just tested my newest prototype parts tonight (been grilling since 6 pm) and I like how it all works. The question is, what does everyone else think?
Would you use such a thing?
Would you want it for a particular kettle size?
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/026/614/231/180e60ba65c910910faf31d2e51b98e7_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1569472631&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=cea862081db7333a34dbdea1b3fd015a)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/026/614/281/33cadc3aaa4e436d70bd07db5b43b2cc_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1569472946&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=2e94c07ae3e0e0e372c39909d5aa8cb1)
(https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/026/614/257/8b8d3de72fe568b73085d51509f3127f_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1569472769&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=895adb719edb8c12129d3cfcb9cd8545)
Full disclosure, I am running the product on Kickstarter right now. But, the campaign is mostly meant to serve as a learning experience, to see what people think of the product. Thus the low goal.
I teach industrial design and entrepreneurship at the University of Illinois at Chicago. I'm running this campaign concurrently with my students, as they run their very first campaigns.
If you are interested in seeing the campaign, here is the link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedburdett/pakitori?ref=ej7xel (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedburdett/pakitori?ref=ej7xel)
Thanks for checking this out! Ted
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Looks neat, but I'm trying to understand why a person couldn't just place those skewers down on the grate ? Maybe with a different type/shape/size skewer, they'd be easier to turn on the rack ?
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Looks like you designed it well. Idk if its something I would buy though personally. I have the weber shiskabob rack, and ive only used it once. In about to Google this extruded charcoal you mentioned though
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@Walchit, thanks! The brand I've been using is PokPok Thaan Charcoal. I've ordered it from Amazon before. It takes longer to light than anything I've ever used, but it burns forever.
@demosthenes9, I hear you. Thanks for weighing in. Some skewers work really well on the grate. Some work way better when cooking in the air, like delicate fish or skewers that are brushed with sugary sauces. That is the idea. The other thing that I like about using this is the way the charcoals are contained and brought closer to the food. Since the coals are all positioned under the food, not under the ends of the skewers, the skewers are cool enough to handle and they don't burn up.
Thanks for your feedback! :D
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I hear ya on the skewers being able to be handled. I think that's the part of your design I was missing.
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It's a pretty big bummer when the handle on the skewer burns off, right?! I used to try soaking the skewers as is commonly recommended. I don't need to do that with this little rack. The skewers in the pic above are super cool, thick bamboo things. They'd be rather difficult to burn through anyway. But I use run of the mill, thin round bamboo skewers with this too. Nice when those come off intact and handlable. @Walchit, did you find those coals online?
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I am not sure I would bother with doing any sizes other than an 14" and maybe a 18" simply because there are a lot of other kabob style accessories to compete with when you get into 22". The 18" category has a fair amount as well given why I said maybe on that size. I would also look to include some kind of stainless steel kabob skewers to go with your product simply because of the smaller sizing of product and a 14" SJ. Might work even better if you made your skewers square rather than round and simply made your notches straight down. Your current design only allows two angles of exposure to heat where as a square would allow four. Round wouldn't give you much of an advantage for larger items like you are featuring in photos simply because it will roll with the weight.
If the product pricing is supposed to be near your contribution amounts then you do have it at a price point where it might be worth it for someone to give it a try if it seems interesting to them. Personally I would just use some bolts and wing nuts on my SJ to raise the cooking height of the grate and cook with or without the skewer.
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You can always soak those bamboo skewers in water, for about 30+ minutes so the wood doesn't burn up. The bamboo absorbs the water, giving the skewer extended burn time resistance.
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I love the idea of raising the skewers up above the grill grate - if anything just to make them easier to turn while cooking. My wife and I cook a lot of chicken skewers, and this would prevent the food from sticking to the grate. Perhaps instead of having the tray to raise the coals up higher, eliminate that piece of it, spread the coals out normally, and use longer skewers so food can cook on both sides of the supports. This way, you still have the skewers above the grate and you can cook more food at a time. Just my two cents - thanks for sharing, and welcome from Highland Park, IL!
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Love your concept, @Pakitori. Do you know if it will fit in a charcoal Go Anywhere?
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@Bob BQ, thanks a ton. In the current state, it will not fir a Go Anywhere. One of the previous versions I prototyped would though. That is a great size.
@jhagestad, thank you for the welcome. Totally an interesting idea!
@RRRanger99 - Thanks for the tip. I've seen that work well when I'm cooking at home. When I prep skewers and pack them for cooking later in the park or at a party, I find the bamboo dries out by the time I'm ready to cook. Thus the preference for shielding the skewer. Thanks for weighing in!
@HoosierKettle - I didn't see what you wrote! Thanks for looking at the thread though!
@ReanimatedRobot - All great points. Thanks for your thoughts. If you used bolts to bring up your charcoal grate, would you get a larger diameter grate or just use really long bolts to hold it in the center of the kettle? Round skewers do have a tendency to roll. Though, funny enough if the food on the skewer makes light contact with the skewer holder, it puts the brakes on rolling. These square skewers with the little "flag" end are awesome for exposing all sides of the food. For the most part, they nestle right into that "v" shaped cutout and can be rotated 90 degrees for all-around cooking. Funny how many skewer shapes and sizes there are out there!
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http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/index.php?topic=43544.0
Smaller charcoal grate for Jumbo Joe?
You could use the existing grate and have longer bolts to the charcoal grate or just use an additional grate on top of the existing.
Similar results, but the kabob arrangement has the advantage of no sticking to the grate.
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You have a nice idea, but you have to determine which market you want to sell to. Everyday grillers or Advanced grillers.
Everyday grillers want to use briquettes. Fast and ez from the store. Your product doesn't look briquette friendly. Your device looks complicated and time consuming. Priced too high to just pick one up for the hell of it.
Sales to every day grillers require low price, ease of use, and large volume of sales.
Advanced grillers may want to use lump and your product doesn't look lump friendly. They are willing to spend money and buy new ideas but they dont' like Smokey Joe's. They use full sized grills, gassers, Kamatos - high end stuff is what they use. Advanced grillers take whatever they need to grill with them, even if it's tailgating. Sales to Advanced grillers will support higher price, more technical features, and lower volume of sales.
Currently you have one product aimed at two separate markets. This is just my opinion.
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@einrej, thanks for your insightful comment. I think that you are 100% right. While this thing works great, it is way too fussy for everyday grillers. And as you said, the Smokey Joe is not the gear of choice for advanced grillers. I gotta say, it is really fun to put something out and see where it sticks and where it doesn't. You end up learning a ton. Well, it might just remain my own little picnic robata, which is fine by me! Or a new summer business idea: Look for me carrying a Smokey Joe around selling skewers next summer at the Osterman beach! Thanks again for taking the time to share your ideas! Ted
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I like it’s designed to fit the Thaan extruded charcoal without breaking them up. It’s available locally and I’ve used it many times in baskets for rotisserie cooks. I don’t see myself using this for short cooks due to the time it takes to fire up and the time I’d spend grilling on it with Thaan.
A grate or smaller openings on the bottom so Lump doesn’t fall through would be something to consider? If it’s a knock down system how about add on panels to make it universal for all size grills? In a larger grill it could have 2-3 zone grilling capability.
You’re onto something cool here.
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@swamprb, thanks for your thoughts and words of encouragement. Those coals are truely special but they work very differently from lump as you pointed out. This thing has no problem cooking batch after batch of skewers on one charge of coal for 5 hours. Changing up the hole pattern, material, or adding a grate as you suggest would make it better for lump. The holes here are enlarged to help the Thaan catch more thoroughly, since it take a while to get going. Lump absolutely works in this, but that temp spike is ferocious. Still, fine for a short cook. Thanks again for weighing in and sharing your thoughts.
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Good luck with whatever you decide
I’d like one for an 18, and using charcoal
My brickatori setup is the same, but I’m using fire bricks in an 18
Not very portable, but works great
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Thanks @dazzo! I love the bricks on the grate technique. How far below would you like your coals from the bottom of the grill grate, assuming the skewers are supported just above it? Best, Ted
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Hi Ted,
The bricks sit on the charcoal grate and fit right to the bottom of the cooking grate.
If I was strictly using skewers, then higher would more convenient. But current setup lets me use the grate as well...
-Rick
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@dazzo, that is awesome. Thanks for sending the pic. I'd seen the bricks used up top on the cooking grate before to elevate the skewers and block heat from the bamboo. This, I have not seen before. Nice way to contain the coals!
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Keep on Turning sells a power rotisserie for anything from a CGA to the 26er. Expensive, but a grate accessory. I love mine, attaches to the CGA and my master touch 22. Great idea though, unneeded with the CGA. Could be cool with the 22 though.
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That is awesome, @M.N.Tolmachoff. Thanks for sharing it. It had not come up in any of my prior searches. I see a larger model on Amazon is $250. Pricey, but looks fun. Thanks again. Ted
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The USB powered motor is cool. I can use my speaker to power it and listen to blues at the same time. Also you can take it anywhere. Just used it at a friends house party.
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It's an interesting concept, but...
This is not directed at you but in general.
People get ideas to make something that does one thing really well, but it is a limited market, not only because there are only a few people that would want to use it, or need to use it, but also because sometimes there are other ways to accomplish the same or very similar results.
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I get it, but if you want to turn some meat, this thing is awesome. Lamb, beef and chicken, maybe pork if that's your thing. I looked at some alternatives, but this was the best and great customer service too.
It's an interesting concept, but...
This is not directed at you but in general.
People get ideas to make something that does one thing really well, but it is a limited market, not only because there are only a few people that would want to use it, or need to use it, but also because sometimes there are other ways to accomplish the same or very similar results.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Weber Kettle Club mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=91018)
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I get it, but if you want to turn some meat, this thing is awesome. Lamb, beef and chicken, maybe pork if that's your thing. I looked at some alternatives, but this was the best and great customer service too. It's an interesting concept, but...
This is not directed at you but in general.
People get ideas to make something that does one thing really well, but it is a limited market, not only because there are only a few people that would want to use it, or need to use it, but also because sometimes there are other ways to accomplish the same or very similar results.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Weber Kettle Club mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=91018)
I appreciate your point of view, but my point was only about the product being commercially viable. I'm looking at the product as something that would be useful for me personally. I already have a few of these; http://www.grillpro.com/accessory.php?category=2&type=4&part=41338 and I don't use them much just because I don't make kebabs more than a few times a year.