Weber Kettle Club Forums
Cooking & Food Talk => Charcoal Grilling & BBQ => Topic started by: austin87 on March 31, 2015, 02:56:25 PM
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I've seen a lot of folks on here say that they NEVER add unlit KBB to burning fuel and will instead use lump or sometimes coshell, but that others (and I'm not sure these are the same folks) will start a minion with 8-10 lit coals on top of a bed of unlit.
@Troy specifically in your post on low/med/hi indirect heat
Keep in mind, adding unlit kingsford to an already hot bed of coals will produce a funky white chemical smoke.
Many people don't mind this, but it drives me nuts.
I like to keep a few different brands of charcoal on hand just for this.
I use kingsford in my smoker, but I NEVER add unlit kingsford to it. I'll add lump or coshell instead.
What's the difference? If you place lit coals on top of a bed of unlit for minion method and place food on, isn't that pretty much the same as throwing unlit KBB on top of lit coals to extend the burn time? If people are concerned with the additives in KBB that burn off at the start, wouldn't the only application for them be using fully lit coals from a chimney?
Maybe I'm missing something... I'm just confused at how the minion method with lit coals igniting unlit coals with food on the grill or smoker is any different that adding unlit on top of burning fuel. Basically, either way you will have unlit KBB igniting during the cooking process, and it seems like that is what folks want to avoid by adding lump instead of KBB.
My grandfather has smoked a turkey on the Weber at Thanksgiving (I'm 28 and he's never missed a year since I've been alive... my mom thinks he's been doing it for at least 40 years)... and his method is exactly what is stated in Weber manual for the indirect method on a 22.5" - 25 coals per side, adding 8 per side per hour. He's always used KBB and just dropped unlit coals on top of the already burning. Eventually, I'll take over the turkey and want to get everything straight!
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You are right, technically it is the same.
When you minion with KBB, wait until the white smoke is gone before adding your food.
The chemicals seem to burn off within 30 minutes.
I'm not completely sure if the burn off time actually burns off the chemicals, or if simply warming up the coals prevents the white smoke.
Either way, there's a big taste difference in my opinion.
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I think you nailed it... once everything is preheated it makes a ton of sense that there would be less smoke. Similar to sticking wood chunks on top of the kettle before throwing onto the coals to achieve thin blue rather than thick white
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See the post with the pics here:
http://weberkettleclub.com/forums/grilling-bbqing/indirect-cooking-low-medium-high/
I warm wood before adding....same concept, generally.....
With the charcoal, if it's lit on top of unlit, right at the burn point or area is pretty hot.....right about to catch fire......that heating helps to kill at least some of the excess nasties that are a part of everyday Blue K's life.....
Same general logic applies using a snake / chain......as the fire burns along, it heats up the unlit stuff it's getting near.......might not take it all away, but it helps.....
And, as far as wood chunks in that situation, they are heated to near the burn point as the fire comes up to them......just about like pre-heating splits on the top of an offset firebox.....
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Thanks Ken - a snake is another application of the same thing I didn't think about, and pre-heating seems to be the way to take care of the nasties.
Thanks both of you for answering my silly question!
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That's actually a pretty serious question if it makes your food come out tasting markedly better..... 8)
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alright, someone needs to put a bowl of KBB on the top shelf of their smoker and heat it to 300ish.
then let it cool down, then burn it and see if it produces the white smoke :)
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I run a UDS in comps, and get a much cleaner smoke when i let my smoker run for 2 hours prior to putting meat on. After about an hour, the pit starts running clean. This sort of sounds like what Troy's talkin about w/ the preheat of the unlit coals. I usually start the UDS (22.5/50 gal) w/ a half chimney thats burned down to a quarter chimney of red hot coals
Maybe its all in my head, but i feel those first 2 hours have enough heat (around 250-275) to burn out the KBB nastiness of the unlit coals.
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I run a UDS in comps, and get a much cleaner smoke when i let my smoker run for 2 hours prior to putting meat on. After about an hour, the pit starts running clean. This sort of sounds like what Troy's talkin about w/ the preheat of the unlit coals. I usually start the UDS (22.5/50 gal) w/ a half chimney thats burned down to a quarter chimney of red hot coals
Maybe its all in my head, but i feel those first 2 hours have enough heat (around 250-275) to burn out the KBB nastiness of the unlit coals.
that sounds legit.
i usually let mine burn for 30 minutes to an hour, sometimes longer. I just watch for the thin blue
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Could that "smell" be the remaining moisture from binding? If so the preheating remedies that.
I mentioned 250-275 but of thats at grate level
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I suppose it could be.
We need a freaking chemist
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I really love this place.... I felt like I was asking a dumb question and have seen meaningful discussion, and after monitoring threads and posting fairly regularly over the last 3-4 months I've never seen anyone be dismissive of any question, no matter how basic or elementary. It's cool to get advice from hands on folks and be able to share knowledge. I've learned a ton since my first post and WKC truly is an awesome community. Much thanks all.
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I really love this place.... I felt like I was asking a dumb question and have seen meaningful discussion, and after monitoring threads and posting fairly regularly over the last 3-4 months I've never seen anyone be dismissive of any question, no matter how basic or elementary. It's cool to get advice from hands on folks and be able to share knowledge. I've learned a ton since my first post and WKC truly is an awesome community. Much thanks all.
Thank you for pointing that out!
I think that's really one of the reasons we started WKC. We were sick of toxic mentalities that exist in so many other forums (and even in our daily society of life).
I personally do my absolute best to question everything and reject anything that falls into the realm of conventional wisdom. Sometimes that means I'm a pain in the ass to deal with though =D
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When I light lump or good charcoal, I walk away to not be near the black smoke and carbon monoxide.
When I light Kingsford blue, I GO INSIDE to avoid the Noxious Fumes of Mystery.
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Is K Comp like KBB? It seems to start the same. I was hoping it had significantly less binder.
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I really like K Comp. It starts with a little less smoke (I go inside while it starts up so I don't watch like a hawk) but I produces significantly less ash in my experience.
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I really love this place.... I felt like I was asking a dumb question and have seen meaningful discussion, and after monitoring threads and posting fairly regularly over the last 3-4 months I've never seen anyone be dismissive of any question, no matter how basic or elementary. It's cool to get advice from hands on folks and be able to share knowledge. I've learned a ton since my first post and WKC truly is an awesome community. Much thanks all.
Thank you for pointing that out!
I think that's really one of the reasons we started WKC. We were sick of toxic mentalities that exist in so many other forums (and even in our daily society of life).
I personally do my absolute best to question everything and reject anything that falls into the realm of conventional wisdom. Sometimes that means I'm a pain in the ass to deal with though =D
one of the thins that attracted me to this forum was the discussions about topics that we all need to discuss. Such as KBB. Hey I am a fan of the stuff, to a point, I found others using coshell here and we have discussed the benefits of that.
My biggest reason to find coshell is the environmental benefits of using it, and I mean not chopping down trees, it is a by product of a huge industry, coconuts.
anyway I digress, even cooking methods are discussed and people here post the results of experiments, not making blanket claims, but in the end we all agree that, Hey we all live in different weather conditions so maybe what works here may not work there.
AND THE BIG ONE, taste is subjective, so we all need to give leeway to the other.
Great forum. sorry for the hijack rant.
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I really love this place.... I felt like I was asking a dumb question and have seen meaningful discussion, and after monitoring threads and posting fairly regularly over the last 3-4 months I've never seen anyone be dismissive of any question, no matter how basic or elementary. It's cool to get advice from hands on folks and be able to share knowledge. I've learned a ton since my first post and WKC truly is an awesome community. Much thanks all.
Thank you for pointing that out!
I think that's really one of the reasons we started WKC. We were sick of toxic mentalities that exist in so many other forums (and even in our daily society of life).
I personally do my absolute best to question everything and reject anything that falls into the realm of conventional wisdom. Sometimes that means I'm a pain in the ass to deal with though =D
one of the thins that attracted me to this forum was the discussions about topics that we all need to discuss. Such as KBB. Hey I am a fan of the stuff, to a point, I found others using coshell here and we have discussed the benefits of that.
My biggest reason to find coshell is the environmental benefits of using it, and I mean not chopping down trees, it is a by product of a huge industry, coconuts.
anyway I digress, even cooking methods are discussed and people here post the results of experiments, not making blanket claims, but in the end we all agree that, Hey we all live in different weather conditions so maybe what works here may not work there.
AND THE BIG ONE, taste is subjective, so we all need to give leeway to the other.
Great forum. sorry for the hijack rant.
"And the big one!"
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't have access to Coshell, that seems to be the rave.
I have tried lump and others. I don't get the debate? :o It is personal preference and maybe cost of fuel. I have seen many cooks here, how many have turned out great, just because of the fuel? IMO, it is not the fuel source, it is the love, the effort and passion put into to the cook...We are our hardest critics.
I Guess what I am saying, I have had know problem with KBB in 25+ years of grilling, and yes I will use it in my first comp. Not that worried about ash, there are worse things in life, than cleaning a little ash...
Like a fine wine, it will swing. Cost is the same, one a day it could be at the top of its cycle and be the best ever, the next time you open it it could taste like sh!t. No rhyme or reason, use what works for you and don't fret the small stuff.
So really, what is there to question? It is personal preference, no wright, no wrong.
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A little bit of googling and I found this link: http://old.cbbqa.org/wood/Kingsford.html
Kingsford ingredients
Kingsford sends a form letter in response to consumers' questions about the ingredients. According to the form letter sent in August, 2000, Kingsford contains the following ingredients:
wood char
mineral char
mineral carbon
limestone
starch
borax
sodium nitrate
sawdust
Purpose of ingredients
There so many ingredients because the addition of each requires another to offset its negative affect. For example, in order to make the briquets easier to light, sodium nitrate is added. But then limestone is added so that, when the briquettes get started, they have the typical light-ash color.
Here are the purposes for each of the ingredients:
wood char: for heat
mineral char: also for heat
mineral carbon: also for heat
limestone: for the light-ash color
starch: to bind the other ingredients
borax: press release
sodium nitrate: to speed the ignition
sawdust: to speed the ignition
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look at the ingrediants
wood
coal
rock
starch
salt
borax
I can see guys objecting to the coal and the borax, but in reality how much borax is in it? and we have used coal to cook with for centuries,
just adding an opinion to the fire here
I use KBB, and I use lump, and I use bio char, so in reality I guess if you wanted my true opinion about KBB, I would tell you it is a great and extremely consistent product, but it does have additives some my find they do not want.